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Location: Pipestone, MN
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Posts: 117
Bill HR 45

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I got this second hand but sounds about right

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Illinois congressman Bobby Rush, from Obama's home state and with a voting record on gun ownership as bad as Obama's, introduced a bill on the first day of the 111th Congress that shows what we can expect. If we don't defeat this bill, and others expected to follow it, gun owners will lose guns and the industry will suffer harm beyond description.
Under HR 45, if you can't pass a complex test written by the U.S. Attorney General (described in detail below), pay the tax, give up fingerprints and a biometric-capable photo of yourself (that can be turned into a digital facial-recognition number and used as a de facto national ID), every gun you own will become contraband and subject to confiscation, while you stand trial before imprisonment. You'd think Bobby, a former black panther, would know better.
Your rights will have an expiration date, and if you screw up and miss it, you'll be in the same mess as people who can't pass the test. Can you say "unconstitutional"? Do you think these "gun bigots" care?
Now that the Supreme Court has made it clear in the Heller case that government can't ban guns, the Brady's have stopped saying they want to ban guns. So the virtually treasonous Bobby Rush bill doesn't ban guns, it bans gun owners, maybe by the millions. How many gun owners read poorly or don't test well? How many can't explain local, state and federal gun laws? They'd become prohibited possessors under HR 45. Are there any limits to what the AG can put on the test? The bill doesn't mention any -- it gives the AG a free hand to include anything.
Had enough? HR 45 has an innocent-looking line that says 'strike the second sentence of 18 USC 926(a)'. That's the line that says the federal government cannot make a central registry of gun owners.
The anti-rights people have to repeal that line, because Bobby's bill flat-out creates a central gun registry. Every gun owner must be registered to keep on possessing the guns they already own, and any transfer of any kind must be registered as well. The mark of the beast is upon us, to apply a metaphor.
See the bill for yourself (click "Bill Number" and enter "HR 45"):
http://thomas.loc.gov/
Read the gun-ban list the antis have already published:
http://www.gunlaws.com/GunLawUpdate3.htm

And this as follows,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

detailed analysis of the bill, in plain English
HR 45
The bill starts with a statement of purpose that says: " because the intrastate and interstate trafficking of firearms are so commingled, full regulation of interstate commerce requires the incidental regulation of intrastate commerce." Basically, this eliminates the Tenth Amendment and the Interstate Commerce Clause. The Constitution can't legally be amended by statute. Is that enough to seek Mr. Rush's removal from office? I won't bore you with the other "purposes" which are as bad or worse.
Only "qualifying firearms" are affected. That means any handgun, or any semi-auto firearm that has a removable magazine (what they call a " detachable ammunition feeding device").
After the bill becomes law (IF it becomes law), it's illegal for you to have or get those firearms, even if you already own them, without a special federal license. There are grace periods up to two years to register yourself once the law is passed.
Do you see how clever this is? You cold-dead-fingers guys can keep your guns if you like, refuse to register yourselves, and then you're subject to arrest on the spot. If you go anywhere with your guns -- to the range, a store, a gunsmith, a friend's house, hunting, competition -- and you're spotted, you go straight to jail. If you're already on a list (can anyone say "carry permit" or "hunting license"?) and you don't sign up, well, just connect those dots. Where does the cold-dead-fingers part come into play? I'll bet the ranges will start requiring you to show your papers before you can hit the line.
To get the license you must "submit to the Attorney General a passport-type photo, identifying info, any name you have ever used or ever been known by (I have nicknames, pen names, stage names, omitting any presumably violates the statute) a thumbprint, certification that any firearms will be "safely" stored and out of possession of people under 18, authorization to give up any mental health records, and a certificate that you passed a government-run test.
The test must include knowledge of: safe storage, safe handling, use of firearms at home, the risks of firearms at home, local state and federal legal requirements for firearms, reporting requirements for firearms, and ANY other subjects the AG decides are appropriate. You date and sign the submission, making it perjury if your info is inaccurate.
The AG "shall" issue the license if you pass the test and do everything else, and also "shall" charge you a tax for the privilege of getting your rights licensed, up to $25 at present. This gets you a tamper-resistant photo ID card with your official number, address, date of birth, signature and the expiration date of your "rights" (about five years, it's complicated). There's a renewal procedure (it's complicated) and no apparent limit on the renewal tax you will be charged (the AG gets power to control the details).
The license can be revoked for cause of course, and the AG "shall" make sure you give it up if it's revoked.
Once this thing is in place, it's illegal to transfer or receive any affected firearm (all handguns and any semi-auto with a magazine) without the license. Transfers can only be made to or from a licensed dealer, who has to jump through hoops and file papers, and has 14 days to get that done (a waiting period on the dealer's shoulders), to get government approvals and authorization numbers.
The dealer must send the feds the gun name and/or model number, maker, serial number, your license number, name, address and transfer date, which the feds must store in a "Federal Record of Sale System," a permanent national gun registry.
This needs to be said verbatim: "(c) Elimination of Prohibition on Establishment of System of Registration -- Section 926(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking the second sentence." That sentence says the feds can't register the firearms Americans own:
"No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act [1986] may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established." The Bobby Rush bill says kiss that sentence and its extremely crucial protections goodbye.
There are a few small exceptions for an undefined "infrequent" firearm gift, bequest or intestate succession among parents, their kids and grandparents and grandkids, and also for lending a firearm " for any lawful purpose for not more than 30 days between persons who are personally known to each other." Sloppy language in this part of the bill bans the transfer of any firearm (not just "qualifying" firearms) between anyone without going through the hoops.
If you lose a handgun or magazine-fed semi-auto, or if one is stolen from you -- you've broken the law if you don't report that to the AG within 72 hours.
If you own such guns, change your address and don't notify the AG within 60 days -- you've committed a crime. In other words, they track you non-stop or you're subject to arrest. No victim, no harm, no foul, no evil, just government placing you in jail for failure to comply. Bobby Rush thinks this is good law, a legitimate use of government.
If you keep in your home a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammo for it, and a person under 18 gets it and harms someone with it -- you've committed a crime. There are some flimsy exceptions (like you know or should reasonably know federal and state gun law for kids) and of course, all the "proper" authorities -- federal, state, local, military, elected, appointed, even employees of government on the job are exempted -- twice. Bobby Rush says OK for thee but not for me, tee hee.
Lengthy penalty sections include two-, five- and ten-year sentences and fines for paperwork violations, possession violations, transfer violations, child-access violations, safe-storage violations and of course, failure to pass the test if you still keep your guns.
The bill ends with sweeping powers for the Attorney General that could be interpreted to mean almost anything, so the details I've described might be little more than a smokescreen! For instance: "The Attorney General may issue an order prohibiting the sale or transfer of any firearm that the Attorney General finds has been transferred or distributed in violation of this Act, an amendment made by this Act, or a regulation issued under this Act."
There's plenty of that in here, plus endless inspection powers, injunctive powers and even, "shall issue regulations... as the Attorney General determines to be reasonably necessary to reduce or prevent deaths or injuries resulting from qualifying firearms..." Is the AG someone we can trust? Or is it someone with utter contempt for the right to keep and bear arms? If it's Eric Holder, Obama's nominee, we get a guy who told the Supreme Court that a total gun ban in your own home is just fine and doesn't violate the Bill of Rights.
Oh, and one final kick in the ribs. Federalism, the idea that states have powers the feds don't, could get in the way. So the bill makes it clear that "...this Act may not be construed to preempt any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision of that State... except to the extent that the provision of law is inconsistent with any provision of this Act or an amendment made by this Act..." I am not making this up. The hubris and audacity of this bill's author is monumental. My lawyer friends will tell me that legal mumbo-jumbo has become SOP, as the feds usurp any remaining crumbs of your state's legitimate powers.
Maybe you've noticed that virtually none of this addresses criminals or crimes. Innocent gun owners are the target. This is about controlling the public and its private constitutionally protected property. Criminals are guaranteed to ignore the entire plan, and in fact, criminals CANNOT apply, since they can't possess firearms in the first place. Even if criminals could apply, they're protected from incriminating themselves by the Fifth Amendment, so they never would apply.
The bill of course makes no mention of this. And people tell me I'm paranoid, that gun bans are just a delusional fantasy of the wacko fringe. What does that say about Bobby Rush from Illinois, the perpetrator of this travesty. He and every co-sponsor he can find should be removed from office. Wherever he appears, people should rise and turn their backs on him as a gesture of disgrace.

Looks like a good time to be on the phone with your congressman/woman
and emails also !!!!!!
Holder Hearings reminder , if havent called????? he'll have a lot of power with bill should it pass

Dave

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Location: Pipestone, MN
Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 117
Bill HR 45

What's really bad about this Bill. for the most it turns a Right into a Priviledge.
And the Attorney General (Holder???? God forbid please) will have free will to decide what it takes to revoke that Priviledge. In short, the Second Amendment is still in the Constitution, but in effect means nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They just very effectively undermined it without touching it.
Yep,,,BO's statement, "I won't take your guns" in part is true, but he won't have to. They are just going make it so you have to hand them over!!!!!

And Holder's Attorney General nomination was put on hold for another week.
He's bad news , you still have time call the committee Senators to voices your opposition to him whether they agree with you or Not,,,,CALL
Then call your District Rep. and let him know in no uncertain terms what you think of the Bill!!!!! This is a very dangerous time for gun owners as a whole.
You can just about bet your last dollar that the AWB will be put on the table again with more additions and worse, NO Sunset Clause!!!

We got to move on all these issues folks, and at a more personal level with phones calls email and letters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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Posts: 3207
Bill HR 45

I particularly like the part about having to let the AG know within 60 days when you change your address. So we have to report our whereabouts like sex offenders.

Of course, once this is on the books, it's all subject to expansion through regulatory discretion by the AG. Fees can go up, processing times can increase, administrative requirements can increase, etc.

And so it begins. It's now in the Judiciary Committee, which is chaired by rabidly anti-gun John Conyers.

Those of you on this forum who deluded yourselves and voted Democrat are responsible for this. And today's only Day 2 of the New Order.

It saddens me to see our nation so gleefully surrender the birthright that so many patiots of the past have died to defend.

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Location: Pipestone, MN
Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 117
Bill HR 45
expatriate wrote:
I particularly like the part about having to let the AG know within 60 days when you change your address. So we have to report our whereabouts like sex offenders.

Of course, once this is on the books, it's all subject to expansion through regulatory discretion by the AG. Fees can go up, processing times can increase, administrative requirements can increase, etc.

And so it begins. It's now in the Judiciary Committee, which is chaired by rabidly anti-gun John Conyers.

Those of you on this forum who deluded yourselves and voted Democrat are responsible for this. And today's only Day 2 of the New Order.

It saddens me to see our nation so gleefully surrender the birthright that so many patiots of the past have died to defend.

Oh Yeah,,,,,It sux bigtime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

expatriate's picture
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Posts: 3207
Bill HR 45

"Every nation is liable to be under whatever bubble, design, or delusion may puff up in moments when off their guard." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816.

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Location: Montana
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Posts: 449
Bill HR 45

I called all on the committee as well as majority and minority offices and state reps, It only took 15 minutes, most were very thankful for the input, You dont have to go into detail as to why you oppose Holder, you don't have to give your name its just recorded as Oppose or not.
I could hear the disappointment in the Dems office when i said "I want it on record that i strongly oppose Mr. Holder as A.G."But even they said it was recorded and would be passed on to their senator.
One said " Thank you the senator needs all the support in numbers to take to the committee he can get"
So i do believe voicing your opinion matters, its better to do something then nothing.
Take the lousy 15 minutes away from the internet and get on the phone, let your opinion matter.
In the face of all nay sayers saying " Obamer don't want our guns" all i can say is i don't have to backtrack a critter very far to see what it is and where its going, its happening now

expatriate's picture
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Posts: 3207
Bill HR 45

Strange...I don't see SoCo or Civet on this thread telling us that this doesn't mean the Dems are interested in going after our 2nd Amendment rights.

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Location: Pipestone, MN
Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 117
Bill HR 45
expatriate wrote:
Strange...I don't see SoCo or Civet on this thread telling us that this doesn't mean the Dems are interested in going after our 2nd Amendment rights.

Kinda hard to argue without a leg or legs to stand on.!!

Dave

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Bill HR 45

Here's a direct link to the entire bill:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45:

I see this as just the beginning of what's to come in the years ahead of us. It doesn't look pretty.

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Location: California
Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 1071
Bill HR 45

Well, I just finished reading the bill. I do have words for this, but I can't use em here! There's ladies present. Brick Wall,) Angry Shame on You!

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Joined: 07/29/2008
Posts: 723
Bill HR 45
Quote:
most were very thankful for the input

Yes
If you contributed in the four figures to whomever you called it might have been noticed.

The gun loby did all it could to defeat Dems from getting elected even Dems nuetral on guns. Now it's payback time. And bear in mind it's a cultural issue, nothing to do with rights or safety or anything else. Kind of like abortion or being pro war.

I'm not much in to owning bunches of guns but I still would like a couple. Here's hoping illiterate gun owners have to give em up. I can walk and chew gum and have no problem with the police knowing who I am, heck I figure we're on the same side.

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