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Location: South Africa
Joined: 08/13/2006
Posts: 30
Big mamma scratches PH-Barnes X failed

Check this out....

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1995741,00.html

Would love to hear what you guys have to say.

Don Fischer's picture
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Location: Antelope, Ore
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Big mamma scratches PH-Barnes X failed

I don't use any type of hollow point bullet for hunting any big game and that's why. Many years ago I tested bullets for weight retention in newspaper and found that165gr 30 hollow point bulletds more often than not, close up the point and bend. While I'm sure todays bullet's are better than that, I still wouldn't want one doing that at the wrong time. Winchester re-designed the Fail Safe this year with a poly tip as will Barnes be using one in the "X" bullets. Winchester claims that one reason it to make more relaible expansion.

Go to the "firearms" section and look up the article on bullet failure. I posted it but it was written by an African PH, screen name JJ Hack. Very informative and very well written. I might also note that he finds the newer "X" bullets a vast improvement.. Were I to hunt any dangerious game, I'd choose a suitable cartridge and a suitable expanding bullet. An expanding bullet that fails I've found will leave a nasty wound that helps slow down the animal. A failure as this article talks about leaves a very dangerious animal with a hole bigger than a needle but of little value in slowing down the attack.

Really intresting article.

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Location: South Africa
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 27
Big mamma scratches PH-Barnes X failed
Don Fischer wrote:
A failure as this article talks about leaves a very dangerious animal with a hole bigger than a needle but of little value in slowing down the attack.

Good point Don. I don't think that this cat received a lethal first shot though and quite frankly, the PH's 2nd and 3rd shots were probably not that "lethal"either.

Even a .375 solid would have made a hole big enough to kill that lioness if she had been shot through the vitals - especially if the follow-up only commenced an hour after she was shot as what is being claimed in the article.

I know I'm probably starting to bore people with this but even the best bullet, fired from the biggest rifle won't kill anything immediately without proper shot placement.

I know of someone (no - not Fred) who blamed the factory ammunition that he was using for not being able to secure a clean kill on a Gemsbok. "Didn't open up" was what he later claimed in an article he wrote about the hunt. Well, whether a bullet "opens up" or not is irrelevant when the first shot goes through the guts...

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Big mamma scratches PH-Barnes X failed
RifleandReel wrote:
Don Fischer wrote:
A failure as this article talks about leaves a very dangerious animal with a hole bigger than a needle but of little value in slowing down the attack.

Good point Don. I don't think that this cat received a lethal first shot though and quite frankly, the PH's 2nd and 3rd shots were probably not that "lethal"either.

Even a .375 solid would have made a hole big enough to kill that lioness if she had been shot through the vitals - especially if the follow-up only commenced an hour after she was shot as what is being claimed in the article.

I know I'm probably starting to bore people with this but even the best bullet, fired from the biggest rifle won't kill anything immediately without proper shot placement.

I know of someone (no - not Fred) who blamed the factory ammunition that he was using for not being able to secure a clean kill on a Gemsbok. "Didn't open up" was what he later claimed in an article he wrote about the hunt. Well, whether a bullet "opens up" or not is irrelevant when the first shot goes through the guts...

Excellent point about the .375 bullet. A 375 still leaves a decent hole whether it expands or not.

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Location: South Africa
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Posts: 30
Big mamma scratches PH-Barnes X failed

That is very good input and advise from all. Wish the PH and hunter read it before they went into the bush.

Shot placement on cats are vital, then they die easy. The vitals for a cat lies a little bit different than that of most other animals. If he shot it on the shoulder, he prob missed the vitals, if he went and inch to high, and missed the shoulder bones. The Afrikaans article in the newspaper Beeld, was much more informative, the English news 24 version I posted, was not as detailed in the description. Still, there is no way that a .375 Barnes X (300gr) bullet will be felt like a pinprick by a lion. That was a comment not thought through.

He will not make the same mistake twice though, and I am glad for him, and his client that no one got hurt.............

There was a picture of the Lioness on the beeld posting......est was HUGE......

http://www.infinito-safaris.com

Don Fischer's picture
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Big mamma scratches PH-Barnes X failed

I know I'm probably starting to bore people with this but even the best bullet, fired from the biggest rifle won't kill anything immediately without proper shot placement

_________________________________________

Rifle and Reel,

Bore them to tears! I see so much of these people that blame poor shooting on the bullet or the cartridge. On another site we were talking about bullet's and some guy complaining about a 350gr bullet from a 458 win mag failing on a hog, HE SHOT IT IN THE JAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was suprized it didn't kill it and had to shoot it again in the chest. There's really to much of this happening and I believe it's due to to much bad information being put out. There are a few site's where I don't see a lot of this and thi is one. I think the most outragious thing I've read here was some guy claimed that the 257 Weatherby Mag was a good moose cartridge to something like 600 or 800 yds.

On another site a guy speaking on penetation told of hitting a deer at 450yds with a 120 gr partition from a 25-06. According to him the bullet entered behind the ribs, went thru the chest and exited the chest. Then the bullet re-entered the neck, broke the neck and exited the top of the neck. When I asked him about the trick bullet, he told me the deer had it's head down eating. I wonder if he's ever seen a four legged animal eat? You could probally do that to a giraffe if you cut off it's legs!

You guy's keep it up, bore them to tears!

Don

CVC
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Big mamma scratches PH-Barnes X failed

Wow, those stories are scary and remind me why I mostly bow hunt.

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