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Location: ontario
Joined: 07/07/2006
Posts: 237
Bears only at night

Hotmoon, thanks for taking the time to set out your reasoning for points you've made. It is appreciated. Actually,I have read the entire thread a few times to make sure I wasn't speaking outta turn and sticking my foot in my mouth. Its getting rather lengthy to debate back and forth about points we may differ on so how about i pick this one specifically. I don't quite agree with the rubber boots and scent thing and my reasoning is this. Take deer hunting because people are more than aware of how acute a deers sensory abilities are. Their eyesight, their hearing and their ability to detect smell. Over past decades, thousands of monster trophy bucks have been taken from across North America, Illinois, PA, MI, and in Canada, NW Ontario, Manitoba and particularly, Alberta. All these were taken long before scent loc products came along. Now we're at the mercy of their advertising campaigns which say we won't get a trophy deer unless we use their product. So what happens? We go out, get a typical average size deer and say, "Dang it, I shoulda bought their product." Well, trophys are trophys because they're rare and most people not only will never get one, chances are they'll never see one in their lifetime because they are rare. I've never noticed but likely none of my hunters wear rubber boots yet my success with mainly archery guys and gals is always close to 100%. And every year they take bears from small to large. And I'll be honest with you. I call a male bear at 250 lbs a darn decent bear Thats not tourist size, that's weighed on a scale. They get the odd larger of course, but not often. A good friend of mine takes anywhere from 40 to 50 bears per season, he's been doing this for 40 yrs, and of those, he'll get only 2 or 3 that actually weigh over 3oo lbs.
I think your solution for getting those nocturnal bears is ok except that most guys dont' have the time to make all the changes.you suggest. Most guys only take a week off for the bear hunt because they've other time committed to deer or moose that will fill their available vacation. My suggestion would have been this: move your stand to the quietest, thickest, darkest spot you could find nearby, clear out the least amount of canopy needed for a shooting line, bait, and hope for the best.
But by far, the best suggestion you made was in your last paragraph. Now that I agree with whole-heartedly.

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Location: Alberta Canada
Joined: 04/07/2006
Posts: 297
Bears only at night

sawbill i think i did recommend to porka to move his site deeper , but even that will not change their behavior because they are nocturnal after all,, yes it's true time needed to make this happen, but if ppl are willing to go for it why not ?

porka picked the wrong location and i told him so , but i will not give up and let him deal with it on his own specially a first time bear hunter .

i took the challenge because i've done it before and i know it can be done again. and helping porka remind me of myself in my early hunting years, i hunt bears because i love hunting them,, i don't do it for the money , because ur friend is an outfitter he gets unlimited tags so 40-50 bears a year is not uncommon, me i only get 2 a year !

the more killing at a bait site the smaller the bears are, because u r not giving them enough time to grow old. therefore outfitters usualy have more then a dozens of bait lines runing or they will run out of bears soon !
I run 3 baits that's all i need for myself and sometimes friends, my bears are easily 400 lbs and some more, heck one sow is over 400 lbs , so keep in mind the older the wiser, 300 lbs bears is considered ok but not a big boar, that's why it is sooo easy hunting black bears with outfitters, because their bears are not that big.. of course they do have big bears around no doubt but 300 lbs bears are easy or easier to hunt ..these bears are easy in my book !

as for rubber boots i want u to take a closer look at any bear hunter's feet and tell me what u see ? but hey u guys don't use them and still shoot bears.. great.!! does that make ur way of hunting them wrong, or me and many other bear hunters who use rubber boots wrong ?!
many proffesional black bear hunters never hunt bears without ribber boots, especially when hunting big boars, not the 300 lbs bears ,,one of them is the legendary Bill Vaznis

it's true commercial products were not availabe back then, but i remember we use to rub our boddies with mud and roll on the grace near the site to smell the same.. many other tricks we use to do now that commercial products are available with scent that minic nature will help in my opinion.
I also find scentless soap work great !

a very good friend of mine tought me something long time ago,, he told me if u hear a fellow hunter talking about his way of hunting and u don't agree with it, and then ask u what u think , never tell him u r wrong or it won't work , or u r mis-informing ,tell him i don't do it that way i do it different,, just because u don't do it that way doesn't mean his way is wrong and urs is right !

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Location: ontario
Joined: 07/07/2006
Posts: 237
Bears only at night

I could talk bears all day....and moose too, but lets not hog the site. Anyway, let me tell you about my trail timer. My $350 trail timer! I thought it would be a great investment to help me learn more about bears, and it has been that for sure. So, I set it up about 30 ft from my bait pile. Came back 2 days later and there it was--Gone! So, after cursing everyone I could think of, including the mother-in-law, finished re-baiting the site. Just as I was leaving, I saw the thing on the ground near the tree I had stuck it on. So, back to the truck, got some wire and wired it to the tree. 2 days later, same thing. Only this time, there was teeth marks through the casing. So, tried the old balsam gum trick, same thing next time in. I said enough of this and brought it out with me to the truck. About 2 weeks later, I got to talking to a hunter from my chums camp and he said to try this stuff, and he gave me a full bottle of Scent Loc. So, next time back to the baitsite, wiped the stuff on inside and out (my machine you have to open the case to set it) and wired it up higher on the tree out of sight. Next time in, it was gone! So much for Scent Loc wouldn't you say? Anyway, it now sits in my closet at home counting moths. Soon as I can get a metal box made up, I'll start using it again. So, thats that story.
BTW, of the times I did get to use it successfully, I was totally dumbfounded at when the hits occurred. Most at happy hour 4 PM to 10 PM, a few after that, but lots of hits well before daybreak up to 8 or 9 o'clock in the morning. At some sites, hits all day long, morning, noon and evening.

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Joined: 05/20/2006
Posts: 64
Bears only at night

Sawbill, I came hear looking for help, and HoTm00n has been MORE than helpful, and I welcome his suggestions.

To come in here and say some of it is wrong makes no sense. We all agree that every bear is different. HoTm00n will suggest I try something, I'll try it, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't mean it was a bad suggestion and a wrong way to do things. If it doesn't work, then at least we tried, and we'll try something else.

If it does work, then great!! I'm glad he suggested what works in "HIS" experience because it worked for me as well and gets me one step closer to my goal.

So could we please get back on track on what this forum post was for, and HELP ME GET THE BIG BROWN BOAR! Thumbs up

Where is stands now, I've got about 2 browns and 2 blacks and one blonde hitting my bait at least one time a week. (which is really good in our state) I am baiting once a week, usually on Friday or Saturday, and always before noon. Food is usually leftovers from what I don't eat, bread, donuts, some maple syrup, fruit, etc.

I've got a better camera up there, so we'll know the day and time each bear is hitting better.

I am going to build a better bear stand that we can sit in for a couple days if we have to. (see new post I started) I'm hoping to have it in place at least a month before opening season again, which is end of August.

Throughout August, I assume it'll be good to go with food the bears will really like, and we'll work hard to train them to keep coming during the day. I'll also start picking up the baiting to twice a week, then every other day if it'll help.

Thanks guys.

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Location: ontario
Joined: 07/07/2006
Posts: 237
Bears only at night

Actually Pork, Hotmoon and I have been working through our differences of opinion and I don't expect there to be any black eyes or bloody noses down the road. I have too much respect for his general knowldge to let it get that far. If truth be known, he's gone above and beyond what anyone would do to help someone figure out whats going on at a baitsite. An admirable trait in any man dontcha think? That I don't agree with some of his methods or interpretations is irrelevant. I said so, and he rebutted. Unfortunately,once you type something and push "Submit" you can't get it back and upon re-reading my original post, I didn't like how it sounded either. For that I will be forever apologetic. And I do apologize for hijacking much of your thread . That was never intended either. In my own defence, I have a bit of experience with bears and bear management through a 30 year career of field work with the Ontario government and an after life as a bear outfitter. So, those be the credentials I bring to the party. All i should have done is knock on the door first and then come in.

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Location: Alberta Canada
Joined: 04/07/2006
Posts: 297
Bears only at night

Thank you guys for ur kind words,, No hard feeling whatsoever !!

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Joined: 05/20/2006
Posts: 64
Bears only at night

New camera much better!!! This bear has been around for the last couple of weeks, and always at night. Haven't seen the big brown for a week now.

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Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: 10/28/2003
Posts: 1647
Bears only at night

Sawbill you seem to be pretty pasionate about your bears!
One of the comments that hotmoon made reminded me of a old indian saying that I have heard. "The turkey sees the leaf when it falls, the deer hears the leaf when it falls but the bear can smell the leaf when it falls".

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Location: Alberta Canada
Joined: 04/07/2006
Posts: 297
Bears only at night
hunter777 wrote:
Sawbill you seem to be pretty pasionate about your bears!
One of the comments that hotmoon made reminded me of a old indian saying that I have heard. "The turkey sees the leaf when it falls, the deer hears the leaf when it falls but the bear can smell the leaf when it falls".

DITTO TO THAT

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Joined: 05/20/2006
Posts: 64
Bears only at night

Here's pics from the last week. Hotmoon, look at the captions of the pictures as I have some questions about them. (or anybody else who has some input)

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