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expatriate's picture
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Is bait hunting fair chase?

Quote:


I live in Oklahoma now but I must say that even Okies have manners, and I could care less what state you live in.

Some might say this statement contradicts itself.

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Location: Oklahoma
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Is bait hunting fair chase?

Would you like for me to clear my statement up for you??? I meant that no matter what state you live in you should still use good manners. You are the one who said that I was a yankee...maybe I take offense to that!

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Is bait hunting fair chase?

This thread deals with fair chase and will only deal with fair chase from this post forward. The last 26 posts have been interesting, but are adding nothing to the debate, on what is already a heated issue.

For discussion on other topics such as:

- Southern hospitality
- The proper way to address gender
- HSUS
- Freedom of speech
- The Sierra Club
- Okies or Yankees
- Lithium

please start a new thread.

expatriate's picture
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Is bait hunting fair chase?

Well, said, Moderator. I apologize for getting off track.

It seems interesting to see so much debate over fair chase as applied to big game. Duck and goose decoys are seemingly universally accepted as a means of targeting the birds' flock instincts. And as previously noted, it's interesting that it's acceptable to use scents, grunts, and calls to target a deer or elk's sex drive. Pig hunters often use predator calls to target a herd's protective instinct. And when it comes to predators, no one seems to have a problem with using a dying rabbit call to target a coyote's hunger.

Yet many argue that it's unethical to target hunger in typical large game species. The more I think about this, the more it's becoming apparent that the opposition to baiting (including my own) is very species specific, and not necessarily rooted in an overall hunting ethic. Thus, it seems to me that the main issue here is not an ethical debate over fair treatment for wildlife, but more a reflection of how we were raised to hunt a particular species.

I've read recently where there's been talk of the federal government getting a toe into hunting regulation via setting standards for game farms. The issues raised in this thread (well, most of it anyway) highlight the danger of this and the need to keep game management within states, where it can better reflect regional customs and practices. I'm using this to illustrate the point, not get us off track. If anyone is more familiar with the issue, it may be worth starting up another thread.

[ This Message was edited by: expatriate on 2002-11-17 20:57 ]

bitmasher's picture
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Is bait hunting fair chase?

Wow, what a difference 24 hours makes, from fair chase to lots of ranting back to fair chase...

Yes breaking it out by the "sense" or drive that is being targeted helps to lure the game is a good way of rationalizing the debate. Hunger does appear to be the only type of baiting that people might raise issues with.

It really does depend on the species too, I got a kick out of Cob's posts here and on other threads where he is against baiting deer but not against spotlighting coyotes w/ motorcycle.

Cob, I'm not bashing you, I come from a ranching family where the coyote is the bane of the earth, so I understand. Just using that as a way to illustrate the point that the concept of fair chase is not unilaterally applied.

Is baiting the best chase (whatever precisely that means)? Probably not, but then spear hunting would probably be the best chase around, but I don't see anybody here that is against baiting, championing the idea that we should lay down our guns and compound bows and revert to spears, to put more fairness in the chase. Fair chase is a scale that slides with time.

Ontarget be careful there man! I'd actually feel bad if you broke something over a doe piss post. Wink

expatriate's picture
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Is bait hunting fair chase?

Bit, notice the number of times the words "hand thrown" appear in Alabama's hunting regs regarding spears. Neolithic technology isn't exempt from fair chase issues, either.

This brings up an interesting point: isn't "fair chase" a new (i.e. recent 50 years) concept? Did our ancestors care about being sporting, or did they do whatever it took to put meat in the pot?

The concept of fair chase seems to have developed similarly to the Geneva Conventions. Rapid improvements in technology produced a kind of culture shock that drove people to want to avoid the kind of social upheaval that comes with change. We see this today as states wrangle with laws about ATVs, radio collars, FRS radios, illuminated sights, hearing amplifiers, motion detecting cameras, etc.

I sometimes wonder if baiting came into vogue during the 20th century as deer populations declined in some parts of the country and hunting competition increased. But now with fewer hunters and exploding deer populations, it sounds like it doesn't gain you anything anymore.

[ This Message was edited by: expatriate on 2002-11-18 01:09 ]

cob
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Is bait hunting fair chase?

I just have to defend myself real quick. Baiting deer and hunting coyotes from a motorcycle are 2 totaly different things. there are LOTS of coyotes around where i live and they need to be thinned. As a matter of fact the county used to pay for coyote ears (just proof at how bad they are)

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Is bait hunting fair chase?

Hi Cob!

I hear you on the coyote problems. I come from a ranching family and it gets pretty bad with all the predators. Coyote is one you don't get reimbursed for like you do with bear and lion kills.

However, I think what makes this thread's discussion interesting is what level of baiting (or other assistance, like spotlighting, etc.) is acceptable to most hunters. And obviously what's acceptable for one species may not be for another.

bitmasher's picture
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Is bait hunting fair chase?

Expatriate, yes, I suppose they want to make sure your not putting firepower behind the spear. Of course as a practical point, in reference to one of your earlier comments, I think if you can throw an ATV, there is no wildlife officer that is going to willing tell you what you can or cannot do.

Chief Wildlife Officer: Lt Underling you see that man over yander twirling the ATV on his index finger?

Lt Underling Officer: Yes sir, I do sir. What about him sir?

Chief: He is breaking every rule of fair chase, not giving the deer a chance I tell you, with triceps like that the guy can toss an ATV a good clean 50 yards. That is illegal, Lt, rule book clearly states, no one shall participate in the ATV hunting toss season who can exceed a standing hurl of precisely 30 yards! Not giving the deer a chance I tell you and we don't stand for falling ATV's smooshing Bambi unless it is under 30 yards!

Underling: Yes sir, definitely illegal, sir.

Chief: Now, Underling I want you to disarm that man. Just kindly go over and tell him to put the ATV down.

Underling: Uhhh...Yes Sir... will you be giving me assistance sir?

Chief: Why certainly Underling, I'm just going to sit behind the truck here, and rattle some antlers, you know try to create a diversion for Mr. Triceps. With any luck he will toss the ATV at the truck instead of you.

Underling: But Sir, we are 200 yards away!

Chief: That's ok Underling I've got you covered. My rattling will wake the dead, he'll hear me....

.............................................................................

Point to Ponder: What does it mean to disarm a man who's weapon is his arms?

Cob, no defense necessary. I was only trying to back up Expatriate's point that "fair chase" depends on the species involved.

[ This Message was edited by: bitmasher on 2002-11-20 00:26 ]

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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Is bait hunting fair chase?

I heard Mutual of Omaha was bringing back "Wild Kingdom;" sounds like you have an advance copy of the script. And I thought Marlon Perkins was dead!

On the other hand, maybe they could get that guy from "Crocodile Hunter" to do it:

"Crikey! Loook at the soize of that ai tee vee! What a bruiser! These rednecks can be a real danga if they see you mowvin ahp on them. Oill get his attention and 'ope 'ee thraws it at the trahck, giving me a chance to grab his beeya and immowbiloize him..."

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