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bitmasher's picture
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America's Other Auto Industry

While the headlines are dominated by more doom and gloom at the big three, I found this article interesting.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809320261867867.html

The international car makers aren't cheering for Detroit's collapse. Their own production would be hit if such large suppliers as the automotive interior maker Lear were to go down with a GM or Chrysler. They fear, as well, a protectionist backlash. But by the same token, a government lifeline for Detroit punishes these other companies and their American employees for making better business decisions.

expatriate's picture
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America's Other Auto Industry

Thanks for that. I've been wondering when people were going to start asking why Toyota can make a profit on cars built in the US but the Big 3 can't. Great article.

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America's Other Auto Industry
Quote:
but are $73.21 for Detroit.

lie

expatriate's picture
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America's Other Auto Industry

Wow -- now there's a well thought out, devastating intellectual argument.

On the one hand, we have a researched Wall Street Journal article, and on the other hand, we have Civet's one word argument: "Lie."

No facts, no refutation, no statistics to argue the point -- just call it a lie.

These aren't the droids you're looking for...

It may work with the left, but not with thinking people. If you're going to dispute it, Civet, you'll have to do a lot better than that.

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America's Other Auto Industry

Don't need to research didely squat. WSJ is just another hack mag of Murdoch/Fox, anyone with half a brain could figure out a UAW worker isn't making $70 an hour, 3 seconds on the net would get you there, can't believe I paid all that money for your education.

Y'all missed the memo, the fact based community trades in ,,, well,,, facts.

Michael Moore has the plan.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/3/74954/1532/390/668798

Just waiting for 1/21/09 meanwhile where's yur guns.

CVC
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America's Other Auto Industry

Civetcat - once again you force me to prove you wrong. Shame on You!

The article does not say that the UAW worker earns $70 per hour. This number is the labor costs GM and the others bear in producing an automobile. It takes in account health insurance costs, AND retirement costs.

Go back and reread the article or look at the part I cut and pasted for your convenience.

"This $29 cost gap reflects the way Big Three management and unions have conspired to make themselves uncompetitive -- increasingly so as their market share has collapsed (see the nearby chart). Over the decades the United Auto Workers won pension and health-care benefits far more generous than in almost any other American industry. As a result, for every UAW member working at a U.S. car maker today, three retirees collect benefits; at GM, the ratio is 4.6 to one."

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America's Other Auto Industry

I know that already and knew it when I posted, why include the $30 per hour in the cost for a worker then if it's really not for that worker. Is the cost of a pension fund included in the cost of other hourly wages?

Tell the truth I wish auto workers really were making $70 an hour, I pay $100 for the accountant, $250 for leagal eagles, and probably $600 to double that for doctors, I certainly don't begrudge paying someon who actually works.

Don't understand why everyone hates America and American workers.

But go ahead keep pointing things out.

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America's Other Auto Industry
civetcat wrote:
I know that already and knew it when I posted, why include the $30 per hour in the cost for a worker then if it's really not for that worker. Is the cost of a pension fund included in the cost of other hourly wages?

Tell the truth I wish auto workers really were making $70 an hour, I pay $100 for the accountant,

$100.00 for the Accountant is know where near enough to try and keep up with your finances as it is plainly obvious that you have no business clue.
Why wouldn't you include the $30 in your employee cost? It is a benefit for the employee is it not?
Do you know how GM, etc accounts for this money to the IRS?
Perhaps for Tax purposes it is listed as a benefit and therefore taxed differently than a plain old "cost".

Is it your assertion that UAW workers dont "actually work"?
Perhaps you should tell them that, sounds like information they'd like to know.

How in the world do you bid jobs or price a product if you dont take into account benifit cost for your employees.
Oh wait, I forgot, you Include NO benifits cause the Government will take care of your employees. Paying for benifits for your employees out of your own pocket would be un-American huh?

I'll say it again. E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N. Try it sometime.

CVC
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America's Other Auto Industry
civetcat wrote:
I know that already and knew it when I posted, why include the $30 per hour in the cost for a worker then if it's really not for that worker. Is the cost of a pension fund included in the cost of other hourly wages?

Tell the truth I wish auto workers really were making $70 an hour, I pay $100 for the accountant, $250 for leagal eagles, and probably $600 to double that for doctors, I certainly don't begrudge paying someon who actually works.

Don't understand why everyone hates America and American workers.

But go ahead keep pointing things out.

So you knew your post was erroneous when you posted it but you posted it anyway?

I'd like to know why you and your fellow democrats hate America?

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America's Other Auto Industry

Personally, I trust the WSJ's economic analysis a lot more than Michael Moore. Talk about hating America -- that guy has made a career out of it.

I think organized labor may be part of the problem, but American workers aren't. Americans are turning out great products for Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai.

I think the major problem is management. For example, GM manufactures the same truck under two different labels, and you can get 7 different engines in that truck (not including the hybrid). Those engines all get within 2 mpg of each other. All the variations in their product creates a configuration control problem, decreases standardization, and increases costs for design and logistics to maintain all the different variants.

Meanwhile, it's been my experience that the Big 3 tends to consistently lose out because they seem to think the job is to convince customers to buy what they make rather than to make what people want to buy. Quality is a major factor in that area.

Don't get me wrong...I used to live in Michigan and want to buy American as much as anyone. It's just frustrating that management seems to be making decisions based on outdated dogma rather than good business.

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America's Other Auto Industry
civetcat wrote:
Michael Moore has the plan.

I think that when reading anything by Michael Moore one should be on guard for personal biases that may find their way into otherwise objective articles. Just like reading about communism when Alexander Solzenitzen writes it, you have to sort of look between the lines. Or, I'm just naturally sceptical, maybe. Yes

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