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Location: Deer Woods
Joined: 06/13/2005
Posts: 155
All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

I never have gotten the hoopla of guys buying a gun becuase it is a flat shooter. I really dont understand. If you take a 30-06 and 300 wsm or any of these new magnum calibers and sight each of them in at 300yds dead on what does flat have to do with anything. what is the advantage? What if we stepped it up a notch and say 06 and magnum rifle sighted in dead on at 400yds I understand that one will probably get there faster but so what. I dont think any big game animal will step out of the way of a fast but slower moving 06 bullet. What is the big deal. After all faster doesnt necessarily mean more energy imo I think it really means quicker to get there. Who has ever purchased a rifle becuase they thought it was flat. Another example. People say the .270 is flatter than the .06 well when both sighted in dead on what does flat have to do with it. Please elaborate fellas.

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Location: new brunswick
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All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

GO BACK TO BED MAN Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Location: Wa.
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All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

I've bought a few rifles because they extend my point blank range by a few yds.
I have never sighted a rifle to hit at a specific yardage.
All of my guns are sighted to send a bullet down range at not more than 3.5" above sight and at 3.5" below sight would be my point blank range. Takes the quess work out. Depending on the round my point blank range is from 280 yds to 320 yds. I don't shoot past my point blank range on big game. Targets, rabbits and some other small game are a different story but I have a specific rig set up for those shots.

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Location: Deer Woods
Joined: 06/13/2005
Posts: 155
All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

Hey wonsky whats the problem. I was up so were you. If you cant elaborate on the topic save the space for those that can.

Fuzzy:
Im definitely not saying that I shoot that far cause I dont I have never shot past 100yds. Im simply saying is that with all the new magnum rifles what differnce does it matter how fast or flat one is if sighted in correctly. Im not downing the mags but Im just questioning this whole flat deal.

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Location: Nova Scotia
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All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

You are right... if two calibers are sighted in at 300 yds they will hit the target at 300 yds. The difference is what happens 0-300 yds and after 300 yds. You mentioned the 30-06 and new magnums. Let us compare the 300 ultra mag with the 30-06 to show the difference. Both are using the nosler partition in 180 gr.

50 yds--- 30-06= +2.3" above bullseye
300 RUM==1.17" above bullseye

150 yds---30-06=+6" above bullseye
300 RUM=+3.8" above bullseye

250yds--- 30-06=+3.7"above bullseye
300 RUM=+2.4"above bullseye

300yds--- both hit bullseye

400 yds--- 30-06=13" below bullseye
300RUM= 8.5" below bullseye

500yds--- 30-06=34.6" below bullseye
300 RUM=23" below bullseye

As you can see the difference can become quite significant at the other ranges and game animals don't always come out at our zeroed range. If you adjusted your scope to the new distance, it would take considerably less clicks to chane the POI for the magnum.

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Location: Deer Woods
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All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

Nicely put chester. You are the wise one. Im not oppposed to the magnums just curious. Chester so do you have a magnum rifle. I shoot an .06 and just have never thought of getting a magnum. I actually want me a smaller round like 7mm 08 or 243.

A signifant differnce is noticed after 300yds which should be expected.But within 300yds there is not a big big diff. not big enough where an animal will be missed if taken by a slower cal.

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Location: Antelope, Ore
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All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

I sight in the same as Fuzzy Bear except I use a 6" target rather than a 7" target. The advantae of magnums is not so much flatness of trajectory but rather their ability to deliver energy . That I'm not so sure is all it's made up to be. The problem is that it requires only so much energy to kill anything, in fact even enegry get's trumped by bullet placement when evergy is miss-placed.

Two things deliver energy, velocity and bullet weight. If for example you have two 180 gr bullet's, one at 2700fps and one at 3000fps the faster will give off more energy. But if you have two bullet's one 180 grs and one 200grs, at equal velocity, then the heavier bullet gives off more energy. I have seen table's that show energy requirement's for various animals but I'm not sure how valid they are.

Most people realize that a 22LR properly used will kill some very big animals very fast; there's not that much energy in a 22 LR bullet! As I said above, energy get's trumped by bullet placement when energy is miss-placed; animal drop's like lightning hit it with a 22 LR and runs off after being hit poorly with a 30-06. Although I don't recommend the 22, it kind of blow's out the energy theory.

Many things go into making a bullet lethel, none of them are flatness of trajectory. The theory behind that is that flatness makes it easier to hit distent objects, maybe. But at some point the shooter has to start raising the sight's to make a hit, weather he/she uses Kentucky windage or elavates the elavation knobs on the scope, somewhere you have to rasie the sight's. I have run the same Hornady 180gr bullet out of a 300 WSM and a 30-06 thru my trajectory computer. Each sighted in for max point blank range at an 8" target, most common size used. The 30-06 will be 4.4" low at 300yds the 300WSM will be 1.7" low. Sounds like a lot but, the max point blank range for the 30-06 is 293 yds and the 300 WSM is 324 yds. That's not a lot of difference at ranges beyond what the vast majority of game is shot. And the trajectory of either makes them 300 yd cartridges, a greater range than most game is shot.

Trajectory is just not all it's made up to be because by the time you get to 350 yds, you have to start making manual adjustment's on your own with either cartridge. Of course if you were to replace the 30-06 with a 30-30, then trajectroy becomes a factor in giving you a max point blank range.

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Location: Deer Woods
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Posts: 155
All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

Once again the gods have spoken, Nicely put Don. And thats all I ask is for someone to elaborate on the whole flat shooting ordeal. I prefer more energy than flat shooting ,even if more energy means bigger bullets. But with north american hunting 1000ft lbs of energy will kill most anything if placed in the bread basket. And that is bare minimum.

keep' em comin fellas this getting good. Where's ole wonsky

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Location: new brunswick
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All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

I'M HERE OL BOY HAWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Evil!

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Location: Nova Scotia
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All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle
AlphaMan wrote:
Nicely put chester. You are the wise one. Im not oppposed to the magnums just curious. Chester so do you have a magnum rifle. I shoot an .06 and just have never thought of getting a magnum. I actually want me a smaller round like 7mm 08 or 243.

A signifant differnce is noticed after 300yds which should be expected.But within 300yds there is not a big big diff. not big enough where an animal will be missed if taken by a slower cal.

I do have a 300 RUM remington sendero (no brakes) and it is a nice rifle but it was a "want" more than a "need". It is a great and accurate caliber but your shoulder gets punished for every shot taken. You do get used to it to a degree by shooting it a lot but off the bench you still know you have tripped the trigger.

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All the fuss of a flatter shooting rifle

Like I said in an earlier post.
I sight my rifles so the trajectory does not excced 3.5" above sight. At 3.5" below sight the bullet is at 280 to 320 yds. Depending on round used.

The zone I like to aim at on Deer sized game is approximately 9". The zone I like to aim at on Elk sized game is approximately 11".
By sighting my rifle at a point blank range so bullet will hit within the zone. It eliminates the guess work out to 320 yds.

There isn't a hunting round made that can shoot flatter than 3.5" high of sight to 3.5" low of sight at 340 yds. That's as flat as it gets. If you are sighting a rifle to zero beyond 350yds. You have just eliminated the flatness of the trajectory.

When you zero a rifle at 400yds. The trajectory will be above the zone from about 150yds to 300yds and below the zone beyond about 450yds. This gives you a split point blank range and a rainbow trajectory.

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