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Don Fischer's picture
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This ain't hunting

I hope 7magshooter is not doing what it is being portrayed he is doing. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I also don't think that just because something is legal it is ethical, in my view it's not. I have seem animals in some encloses I would not call fair chase, yet I have seen others that definitely are. Before we get to far gone in what I think everyone including 7magshooter would call dirty, ya might take a break and realize there are differences. The biggest thing going right now is you guys really need to agree to disagree.

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This ain't hunting

kssticker wrote:
Hunting is the pursuit of game in a free chase setting. Hunting is spending time in the woods stalking, seeking and learning your chosen game. Hunting is getting up in the morning, heading to the woods and hoping you get a shot at your chosen game Hunting is not knowing that you will get a shot.

Been there done that and still continue to do so, as stated in my earlier post when among other things, I spoke of my continued support, both financial and by participation, of doing this.

Another clever quote:You say you don't care about the general public, but the general public is who writes new laws. The undecided are the people that get laws changed, the undecided are the people that shut down public ground. The undecided are the people that have a vote and use it.

I do not care what the "general public" thinks of where/when/how I choose to legally pursue the game of my choice. I won't apolagize for that and since when did kssticker become the voice of the "general public" anyway? Does what I do infringe upon your rights? No, not a chance.

Last but not least, my favorite:
You sir are a killer, not a hunter. I hope that your purchased mounts make you proud.

Yes, all my mounts make me proud, whether it was simply the cost of a license that purchased it or several thousand that it cost to get there and back. I feel that way because no matter the cost, I know I worked my a$$ off to get there, get the animal and get home. Do you hunt 100% cost free? Didn't think so.

I am not going to try to convince someone so close-minded of anything, much less about the unthinkable challenges that await in these "enclosures" that I've been to. I can honestly say that I've been challenged as much (and in a few cases more) in the "enclosures" as I have been under your "fair chase" conditions which I also enjoy.

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Location: Augusta,Ks
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This ain't hunting

Like I said, hunting in an encloser looks bad to the public.

The public is who changes laws.

You may not care, but I do enjoy hunting.

CVC
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This ain't hunting

7mag,

I've written extensively on this subject so I think you know where I stand. I only offer the following. Consider the source when reading some of the posts.

I think that some of the ire directed towards hunting behind fenced areas comes from those that have this spiritual sense of hunting and some of it comes from those that simply can't afford it and have a bit of class envy.

As you said, some hunting opportunities only occur behind high fences, but encompassing large masses of land, e.g., Africa or New Zealand.

Interesting that morals were mentioned in the debate. I fail to see how hunting "fair chase" is moral but hunting behind a high fence is not? The end result is the same. I suppose with this logic eating any domestic meat is immoral too?

I tend to get annoyed with people who think their values trump mine and claim to be on a higher moral ground.

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This ain't hunting

kssticker: Like I said, I am not concerned with what the "average joe" thinks of how/when/where I legally hunt the game of my choice. If you or I were so concerned with "public" perception, one might argue that in this day and age it'd be near impossible to do anything you enjoy, much less hunting. there's always going to be a group, and sometimes a large one, that doesn't agree with something you do or say. Does that mean you won't do it, if it's legal, moral and within your rights to do so? I doubt it.

And I do care that you enjoy hunting, as I do. The more we have supporting the sport and our cause, the better.

CVC Said:
I think that some of the ire directed towards hunting behind fenced areas comes from those that have this spiritual sense of hunting and some of it comes from those that simply can't afford it and have a bit of class envy.

I agree 100%, very well said. I find here at home that most of the people that object to hunting a fenced area will fit into the categories you stated but are many times the exact same ones hunting over corn during deer and turkey season and spotlighting deer at night out of a field. Makes a lot of sense huh?

CVC Said:
Interesting that morals were mentioned in the debate. I fail to see how hunting "fair chase" is moral but hunting behind a high fence is not? The end result is the same. I suppose with this logic eating any domestic meat is immoral too?
I tend to get annoyed with people who think their values trump mine and claim to be on a higher moral ground.

You're exactly right, the end result is the same. What's interesting to note is that those radicals in this country use that "immoral" logic when objecting to eating domestic livestock and especially use it to object and attempt to stop hunting.
I'm with you, if you choose to never in your life hunt behind a high fence, that makes you no more moral than I am. I certainly wouldn't attack someone's morals for spending countless hours in the "fair chase" woods and coming home with nothing but a good time, heck I enjoy that also!

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This ain't hunting

I wasnt even going to take sides here but now you guys got me going and a quote from 7mm made me think about how he really feels about hunting.To me I would have to say there is alot of fenced operations that are probably great hunting opertunities but I bet that atleast half of them that are morally and ethically wrong because of the lack or area and how tame the animals are I'm not saying that there arent some great fenced operations with tonnes of acreage and the animals are totally wild. Its just not for me but Im not going to sit here and say that its wrong because just because I wouldnt do it dosent mean Ill sit here and moch other hunters for doing it thats not me either.All Im saying is you guys are giving those antis fire to play with and when

7mm quoted: And I do care that you enjoy hunting, as I do. The more we have supporting the sport and our cause, the better.

Hunting is not a (NO CUSSIN) sport its a way of life its our HERITAGE man not a sport.

Thats like saying or putting sport fishing in the same category as fishing to feed your family or golfing and hunting are the same. The word sport belongs is few things to do with hunting when I use sport I think directly of sitting 400 yrds out from a target and other guys on both sides of me or one of my friends loading the clays NOT HUNTING.

Don Fischer's picture
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This ain't hunting

We had one of those bad high fenced areas near here. I used to go by from time to time to look at animals. The elk were turned loose in a very large area with lots of cover. If they were left there and hunted there it wouldn't have bothered me. But that was not the case. They were fed in a small corral and even when turned out, the gate was left open for them to get back to eat. They were tame as could be. They would come over to the fence and let you pet them. I talked to the owner once, seemed like a nice guy. But to hunt them, he didn't let anyone in the fenced in area. Rather he would pick out a nice bull and turn it out of the property the night before. It would take off but it also predictably would come looking for food the next day. He had it figured right out. Now those elk weren't killed behind the fence but they were certainly trained to come to it. And they were little more than barnyard pets.

At the same time I have seen areas where animals were turned loose and hunted in the area. The biggest difference being that the animals weren't fed. They were water buffalo on a ranch down in Texas. East of Dallas off of US 80. I went to the fence where I found the animals and they were gone in a flash, they wanted nothing to do with me. I asked a local about them and it was a hunting preserve. Those animals might just as well have been wild and so I was told, there was a couple thousand acres behind that fence. I don't have a problem with that.

It sounds like the biggest problem anyone would have is when its represented as hunting and is nothing more than slaughtering an animal. I don't mind if someone slaughters an animal but I sure don't think it should be considered even remotely fair chase hunting. That reminds me of early buffalo hunts, maybe 30 some years ago. Animals were trotted out of a pen in front of a sport that then shot it. That was on TV many years ago and I would guess that those images are still in many peoples minds. Also those that saw that were probably turned off big time on fenced in hunting by that and bring that to the table today. I don't doubt that it still happens but I know that some of the operations are straight too. I know of one at least if I believe what I was told by the local I talked to.

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This ain't hunting

atomikall wrote:
Hunting is not a (NO CUSSIN) sport its a way of life its our HERITAGE man not a sport.

Wow-awfully angry about that aren't you? I don't know a single person who hunts strictly to feed their family, most people rely primarily on grocery stores for that. Obviously most every hunter (myself included) takes most or all of the meat from any given hunt and ends up eating it, but it's not a situation where you're going to starve to death if you don't get a deer this weekend!!

I was and continue to refer to hunting as a passtime, a hobby, something done in our free time that we love and that has been done by our ancestors since time began. It is our heritage, no doubt. I'm sorry I did not refer to it in the proper terms that suit your view of it.

I hunt because I enjoy it more than anything I do, that is the primary reason, not to feed my family. I work Mon-Fri to feed my family, hunting does not fall under the term "work" for me in the same sense that my job does.

Hopefully that clarifies things for you. I'll look forward to seeing your future posts here that slam everyone else who's ever referred to hunting as a SPORT, without first saying it's heritage (which kind of goes without saying I thought??).

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This ain't hunting

Whatever I do the same thing as you and I still dont refer to as sport to me and it never will be for sport to me ever and Im not mad and your not making me angry but its how I feel and Im not putting you down or slamming you whatever you chose to call it you call it what you want. Hunting and Fishing are all that matters to me besides work and my Family Its all I do. When Im not home taking care of my kids Im in the bush its all I do Its all I want too do. Its not a sport too me its a way of life like I said before Im sure you play sports in some kind or way?How can you put hunting in with them is all Im saying.Thats why I come on here also I love all the other points of view and other peoples info there are alot of good people with great storys and pointers on this site I dont come to fight with people I have alot better things too do so If I offended you or anything in any way sorry about that. What I believe hunting is and what you believe hunting is, are two different things but I respect your way so you respect mine that's all I care. When I asked you if you play any other sports I meant golf ,hockey etc anything like that if your answer was yes my answer would be no I do nothing in my past time unless its something to do with hunting and fishing.

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hunting or harvesting

You guys need to understand the difference between hunting and harvesting.

When you go out into the woods or field and pursue truly wild game you are hunting. When you kill one of these wild animals you are a successful hunter.

When you go into a farmers hog pen and shoot a pig in the head for Thanksgiving you have harvested an animal, you have not been successful hunting that pig.

Likewise if you go into a 50 ac deer pen a shoot a deer that has been conditioned not to take flight when humans approach you have harvested a animal raised for that purpose.

On the contrary, when you go into a 1800 ac ranch that is high fenced and rattle up a buck and kill him you have been successful hunting.

We need to be careful when we make blanket statements on any issue.
I spent three days in a 200 ac pen trying to shoot several Sika, Axis and Fallow deer that the owner needed to remove. I left empty handed and so did three others in my party. I saw some, I hunted hard but due to the wild nature of the animals and the thick cover it was very difficult to get a shot. I was Hunting.

Regardless of which method is used you still have a human killing an animal for food and or sport and that is the plain truth and is what needs to be protected.

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