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Location: Montgomery AL
Joined: 07/10/2006
Posts: 23
This ain't hunting

I merely mentioned this because on the TV show it was passed off as hunting and not simply shooting.(see the headline of my thread) I have no problem with anyone who chooses to pay his money and take his buck but please don't film it and broadcast it as a hunting show without some sort of disclaimer. As some have stated these deer were bred to be killed for profit . Would any of you have a problem with your kids watching someone on TV shooting cows, hogs ,chickens or whatever and posing with their kill and talking about what a great place this is to hunt. Just my 2 cents. I do agree we need to fight together the antis but we certainly don't need to hand them ammunition to fight back. They invent enough on their own.

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Location: St. Louis County
Joined: 01/10/2006
Posts: 339
This ain't hunting
Quote:
Does that mean the rancher that produces beef and the slaughter house that kills the beef, sicken's us also? If you want to say that the cow get's a humane death, don't feed me that. I've been in a good number of kill rooms and that's whats sick!

Well Don, now you've gone from talking about hunting to slaughtering domestic animals for mass consumption.

We're all adults here, and I think we all know where our store-bought meat comes from. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call a guy who hits a cow in the head with a sledge hammer a "hunter."

For my 2 cents, if it's not fair chase, it's not hunting. The pay and shoot guided trips are called something else in my book. Bash

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Joined: 08/27/2004
Posts: 1964
This ain't hunting

I'm not arguing with anyone Im just saying I dont think that fair chase on a island and fair chase in the forest are anything like fenced hunting(IN SOME CASES NOT ALL). Just because an animal is on an island it can still get off and swim right? theres not a fence at the end preventing it from going any further and for domestic animals like cows who cares they get killed we eat em has nothin to do with hunting.Plus Im sure even if we did have to shoot our own cows it wouldnt be much harder to shoot them in the bush or inside of a fenced area thats why they use sludges thier about as bright as a burnt lightbulb.

Location: kcmo
Joined: 08/04/2007
Posts: 128
This ain't hunting

I saw another one of Wally's shows and it was the same thing from a high fenced operation in Iowa. Wally's passed on a buck because he said he couldn't afford that one and took a smaller one. I can not remember the name of the place, but I went to the website back then. I found out the deer he passed on would have cost him around $25,000. Guess I will keep to those deer that only cost me the price of the license and tag.

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Joined: 08/27/2004
Posts: 1964
This ain't hunting

Same here LOL for sure 35 bucks is enough for me.

CVC
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
This ain't hunting

I am going hunting in WY for antelope and mule deer. The permits cost a little over five hundred dollars and the wife complained about how expensive the hunt was.

I need to show her the website and tell her how lucky she is that I dont' want to hunt trophy whitetail there.

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Joined: 08/27/2004
Posts: 1964
This ain't hunting

No kidding some are 45,000 its BS if you ask me.

Don Fischer's picture
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Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
This ain't hunting
Illinois_Dave wrote:
Quote:
Does that mean the rancher that produces beef and the slaughter house that kills the beef, sickens us also? If you want to say that the cow gets a humane death, don't feed me that. I've been in a good number of kill rooms and that's whats sick!

Well Don, now you've gone from talking about hunting to slaughtering domestic animals for mass consumption.

We're all adults here, and I think we all know where our store-bought meat comes from. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call a guy who hits a cow in the head with a sledge hammer a "hunter."

For my 2 cents, if it's not fair chase, it's not hunting. The pay and shoot guided trips are called something else in my book. Bash

Your right Dave but I also said it's not something I would want to do. I also said that I think your looking at the future of hunting. New fella, rookie in Kansas, I think it was, said he watched one and the guy passed because it would have cost him 25K. WOW! How many of us here could afford that and of those who would be willing to pay it? What if it were the only game in town?

You need to understand something. When hunting became sport and uncle started handing out food stamps, people were eliminated from hunting for no reason other than they couldn't afford it. I don't recall as much out cry when they first started slaughtering buffalo. Shoot you went into a pen and just shot the one you wanted! Wonder how much they could get for those buffalo today?

How many states reserve non-resident tags for out of States even tho every resident may not be able to hunt? Huge problem here is that hunting has been turned into sport and in more and more cases, sport slaughtering! Don't know about you but I can't afford to fight the big money guys that are actually willing to pay for it. And if you think about it, if the kill is humane, what's the problem? Our game animals are a product in this country, probably every country. How many tags are allotted to registered guides in different states in preference to residents? Even one is to many but it's going on.

I don't think we'll do much about stopping the high fence hunting. In some cases, I don't see a reason to. If a thousand acres is fenced in so the animals can't get out, don't they have a chance? I recall years ago reading about an experiment with white tail deer. I think it was 10 penned in in a ten acre area and professional hunters (?) sent in to kill them all. They couldn't do it!

So what is the reason you support your fish and game? Do you think poachers that have been priced out or left out in favor of non-residents are bad people? Of course some are but not all! I too would rather the more traditional type of hunting. I'd favor higher priced trophy tags for those that hunt for trophies. And what about the guy's that shoot a lot of game each year but use none? I have read several of these guys, they give it away. So it's only about the kill.

This issue won't be resolved here. You have run into people with a different view on sport hunting and are willing to pay for it. As long as the money is there, they will flourish!

I've gotten carried away. Welcome aboard rookie in Kansas.

I'm curious Dave. You live in Illinois, I assume you also hunt there. Would it be alright with you if there were two types tags there? Say a subsistence tag for does and spikes for maybe ten bucks each as you need them and then a trophy tag for bucks two branched forks or better but you have to draw it and get only one. If choose a trophy tag, you forfeit any and all subsistence tags. That be alright? If not, why not? I'd go for it here in Ore and it would make sense in some states that are over run with deer.

It's all about money! Brick Wall,)

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Joined: 08/03/2007
Posts: 52
This ain't hunting

I think Don is right.....it really is more about money than probably ever before, regardless if we like it or not. And for those who have the same outlook as me, when going to hunt a once in a lifetime trophy, you're going to drop some decent funds doing it, so a guaranteed opportunity inside many acres of high fenced land is the only sensible way to go. There will always be outfitters willing to provide this as long as hunters are willing to pay for it-I don't see either side changing that.

And about the show with Wally: I think a lot of hunters and non-hunters alike are under the wrong impression that these guys so many people love to see hunt on TV are out in "fair chase" situations-the vast majority of them are not! (regardless of what they say in the opening or closing credits) I've been fortunate enough to be in hunting camp (in Canada) with a couple of pretty well known hunting celebrities and they were very open about the fact that almost ALL of the hunting on TV is done at high fenced ranches, for a number of reasons, but 2 most importantly: These guys are making a show and the show isn't much good with no footage of the animals you're hunting and no kill. Secondly, it is very unlikely (but certainly not impossible if you have land to manage and constantly provide food sources on) that any hunter, be it Bill Jordan, Ted Nugent or anyone on this forum, is going to go out and sit in the woods that they've never been to before by themselves and happen to get a HUGE whitetail or call up a 340 class bull Elk within bow range, etc... Again, I'm not saying it can't happen and I know people who've experienced it in "fair chase" conditions, but they have experienced it once, not repeatedly, not several times each season.

Personally it doesn't bother me, but it sounds like some on here are trying to compare the hunting shows/videos many people watch to having their child pose with a cow, chicken or farm pig that they shot.....I don't see the relationship between the two. Livestock born and raised for human comsumption vs. trophy animals born and raised for hunting. It doesn't make sense.

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Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
This ain't hunting
7magshooter wrote:
Livestock born and raised for human comsumption vs. trophy animals born and raised for hunting. It doesn't make sense.

Actually there is a connection. Both are a product for sale at whatever the price will bare. At one time there was no livestock, just wild animals. Humans domesticated them for their own purposes. Some provide milk, some eggs. All of them provide meat. For those that think a cow should still be wild and free, I invite you to go out and try to milk a wild cape buffalo!

A though just occurred to me. Is it the idea of high fences that bother so many of us or the loss of hunting as we know it? Remember when the only way to get a mountain sheep was on a pack trip on horseback? Remember deer camps and Whelen shelters? How many of you can go out and built a Whelen shelter from what's at hand? Today your flown in, the face of hunting has been changing for a long long time. Now it's hitting home!

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