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Fester, when you compare the

Fester, when you compare the 7-08 to the 30-06, the performance is nearly identical.  We're only talking 50 - 75 fps difference with similiar weighted bullets.  Additionally, the SD and BC of a Barnes X in .308 caliber compared to .284 of similiar wt. is nearly identical and the .284 beats the .308 in some instances.  (From Barnes X the SD of .284 150 gr. X is .266 and the BC is .408 compared to a 150 gr. X in .308 caliber being SD .226 and the BC is .369).  Based on this data, the .284 of comparable wt. will out fly the .308 with identical muzzle velocities.  I will argue the 30-06 is not a 300 or 400 yd. elk cartridge - it is a 200 - 250 yd. elk cartridge, as is the 7-08.  The difference is that the ft. lbs. of energy from the .308 will be slightly more.  If one is go purchase a better elk rifle than the 7-08, why even consider the 30-06?  I would say go to the .300 win. mag. or any other magnum cartridge simply due to the increased possibility of complete penentration through an elk from greater velocities.  Why exchange the 7-08 for the 30-06 to gain 50 f.p.s. more?  For the same price a little more, you could buy a .300 win. mag. and gain 400 - 500 fps. more and increase ft. lbs. of energy delivered to the target considerably more.  Also, by purchasing a .300, Jim gains a much greater flexibility in regards to bullet choice vs. the 30-06.  While the 30-06 shoots the same .308 caliber bullet a .300 does, the .300 will greatly outperform the 06, when shooting the heavier 220 gr. bullets.

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Refigure

AFHunter wrote:

Fester, when you compare the 7-08 to the 30-06, the performance is nearly identical.  We're only talking 50 - 75 fps difference with similiar weighted bullets.  Additionally, the SD and BC of a Barnes X in .308 caliber compared to .284 of similiar wt. is nearly identical and the .284 beats the .308 in some instances.  (From Barnes X the SD of .284 150 gr. X is .266 and the BC is .408 compared to a 150 gr. X in .308 caliber being SD .226 and the BC is .369).  Based on this data, the .284 of comparable wt. will out fly the .308 with identical muzzle velocities.  I will argue the 30-06 is not a 300 or 400 yd. elk cartridge - it is a 200 - 250 yd. elk cartridge, as is the 7-08.  The difference is that the ft. lbs. of energy from the .308 will be slightly more.  If one is go purchase a better elk rifle than the 7-08, why even consider the 30-06?  I would say go to the .300 win. mag. or any other magnum cartridge simply due to the increased possibility of complete penentration through an elk from greater velocities.  Why exchange the 7-08 for the 30-06 to gain 50 f.p.s. more?  For the same price a little more, you could buy a .300 win. mag. and gain 400 - 500 fps. more and increase ft. lbs. of energy delivered to the target considerably more.  Also, by purchasing a .300, Jim gains a much greater flexibility in regards to bullet choice vs. the 30-06.  While the 30-06 shoots the same .308 caliber bullet a .300 does, the .300 will greatly outperform the 06, when shooting the heavier 220 gr. bullets.

Your stats using the a 165 or 180 gr 308 bullet in your comparison. I don't care what anyone says or if they've been used the 150 for the -06 is not the ideal weight for elk killing. The heavier offering will give better bc's and sd's. I see your points regarding stepping up to a mag but I'll also venture to say many more elk have been killed at 3 to 400 yards with the -06 then the 7mm-08. Not matter if one thinks it's only a 250yd elk killer.

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Jim's original question

AF Hunter,

I was trying to answer Jim's question based on the bullets and the calibers that he listed.  There is a large difference in the SD between the 140 grain .284 bullet and the 150 grain .30 cal bullet.  This is what his question was about.

I think that we need to understand that the BC number gives an indication how the bullet will fly through the air so I don't believe that it impacts on the terminal performance of the bullet like the SD numbers that indicate the bullets ability to penetrate.  So in the case of using a bullet with an inferior (the 150 grain .30 cal) in comparison to the .284 with a much higher SD the proper answer is that the terminal performance of a .30 cal using 150 grain bullets would be subordinate to the .284 with a 140 grain bullet.  

I think that we should consider that there is a difference between adequate elk cartridges and ideal ones.  However, this is not a very easy subject to broach as there are many factors to consider and one of them is the distance that shot will be made based on the terrain hunted and the hunters ability to shoot accurately at those distances.  A 45-70 is an ideal elk rifle in the 100 yard range as is the .300 Win Mag at extended distances.  And lets not forget about the .338 or the .350 mags for appropriate distances given bullet drop and loss of energy.   

Adequate elk rifles would be in the .270, 30-06 and 7mm mag range.  A agree that if Jim wanted to buy a dedicated elk rifle, and if he could shoot it very well given the recoil then by all means he should.  But I didn't get from his instant post that he was in the market for an elk rifle.  I thought that he was just trying to determine the if there was a real difference between the 7mm-08 using 140 grain weight bullets and 150 grain weight bullets in the 30-06. 

My response was then, and it remains...given these two, the 7mm-8 should without much doubt, be a superior choice.    

 

 

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Fester wrote "Jim, In my

Fester wrote

"Jim,

In my humble opinion the 7mm-08 is NOT a 400 yard Elk Cartridge nor would it be a 300 yard Elk cartridge and probably be marginal at 150 yards.  The 7mm-08 is a very fine cartridge for deer and black bear at medium distances up to 275 yards but when you move up to a heavy animal like an elk with big muscles and bones, it would be a daunting task to penetrate into the vitals for an ethical shot with the 7mm-08. 

Make no bones about it, if the 7mm-08 was capable of humanely taking an Elk at 400 yards all of the 30 caliber (and larger) rifles would be off the market in a New York minute.   

Therefore, if you are thinking about a serious caliber for Elk hunting you will need to up your game (no pun intended) to at least a 30-06, 7mm Mag, 300 win Mag or something in the .338 class of rifles if you really want to get out and touch one with absolute authority at more than woods range hunting.  As fine of a caliber that it is, it is not going to compete with the above calibers or the 35 Whelen when big animals are on the menu."

 

Fester, you originally wrote that "7mm-08 is NOT a 400 yard Elk Cartridge nor would it be a 300 yard Elk cartridge and probably be marginal at 150 yards."  Now you say, 

"...given these two, the 7mm-8 should without much doubt, be a superior choice. "  So which is it, is the 7mm-08 an Elk cartridge or not?  I'm certainly confused  Confused I don't mean to upset or offend anyone, I was just trying to make the point that the 7mm-08 is a capable Elk cartridge for the sensible hunter who takes reasonable shots with proper bullet placement.  400 yds., or even 300 yds., isn't reasonable or sensible in my opinion.

 

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Clarification

AFHunter,

Jim's original post asked if there was a real difference between the 7mm-08 using 140 grain weight bullets and 150 grain weight bullets in the 30-06."  But the topic of his post got spun into a question about elk calibers.  In my reply that you are referenced I said:

"...I thought that he was just trying to determine the if there was a real difference between the 7mm-08 using 140 grain weight bullets and 150 grain weight bullets in the 30-06. 

My response was then, and it remains...given these two, the 7mm-8 should without much doubt, be a superior choice."

The comment that I made (above) was just my final attempt to answer Jim's initial question and was not about using the 7mm-08 for elk hunting.  I think that I should have made those statements in their own paragraph or I should have been more articulate.  So, just so I make my position clear, I convey my opinion that given these two (the 7mm-08 vs. 30-06 when .308 caliber 150 grain bullets are used) that the 7mm-08 would be superior.  This hopefully answers Jim's question.  The 7mm-08 is a fine caliber and like the 6.5x55 SE or similar calibers, are not ideal elk cartridges although they could be adequate if the distances are sensible for the caliber and a large for-the-caliber are used, etc, etc.     

I hope that this answers your question.  Sorry for the confusion.     

 

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This is my own beleaf about

This is my own beleaf about magnum cartridge's. I read many years ago that the purpose of magnums was to deliver extrodinary power at normal ranges, not normal power at extrodinary ranges. I bought the idea then and believe that is the real reason for their existence still today. This stuff about long range is, in my opinion, not about hunting but rather about shooting.

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Interesting Concept

"Ya know something Don, "ya got something there.  I agree!

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You too

Fester wrote:

"Ya know something Don, "ya got something there.  I agree!

And you got something there too FesterThumbs up

What you posted about above makes perfect sense. 

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7mm-08 VS 30-06

I haven't killed a whole lot of animals and since I don't always wait for the

perfect broadside shot plus, maybe, I may not have a steady hold every time,

I use a 30-06.  It works. And, in my experience, better than my 7mm-08.

The recoil of the 30-06 is not a whole lot more than the 7-08.

Less finesse, just more power. Works for me.

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I'd like to bring this topic

I'd like to bring this topic back up and ask the people who have been posting how many elk they have shot and with what bullet and what distances, especially Fester.  The reason I ask is that I've read a lot of people talking like experts on various forums and then find they have never even been on an elk hunt.  Just sayin!!!  I've shot my last 3 adult cow elk with the Hornady 150 grain Interbond  (handloads) in my 30-06 and two were at about 275 and 300 yards.  Neither went more than 25 yards with a shot through the chest.  Granted as someone mentioned, the 165 grain might be a better choice, but mine shoots 150s on the button and I'll kill elk all day at 300 yards with it and not look back!   On deer I use the same weight bullet in their BTSP because of it's more rapid expansion and it is great because it shoots to the same POI as the Interbond, negating the need to rezero my scope.  I guess it comes down to what each individual's comfort level is and that'smine proven out in the field numerous times.

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