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Don Fischer's picture
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Location: Antelope, Ore
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7mm-08 for Elk

I happen to like the 7mm's. But I also think that the 7mm magnums are the most overrated cartridges around, and I liked my 7mm Rem. here's the problem with the 7mm magnums. When you get above 160gr bullets, the 30 cal's shoot them faster. The 300 RUM w/180gr bullet will out run the 7mm STW with 175gr bullet by about 300 fps. Readily available for the 7mm mags is 175gr tops! For the 300 RUM 220gr and it gets about 3000 fps.

Where the 7mm really shine is in the 280 Rem and smaller. They handle 160gr bullets very well at a lot less recoil than either the 7mm mags or the 300 mags. The 140 to 160gr 7mm bullets are fine hunting bullets and the velocity of the standard cartridges is far less likely to tear up the bullets which means inexpensive cup and core bullets work well. Furthermore, anything the 7mm mag will do at 400yds, the 280 and the 7mm-08/7x57 will do at 300 yds. Average shots at big game are far less than that.

I don't think that cartridges such as the 35 Whelen are necessary for anything in North America. But madden made it clear in his first post that he preferred larger cartridges, he has not wavered much. If the truth was known, I wouldn't want to be in front of any of the loads we've discussed in this discussion. If I were, I'm not sure I could tell the difference of one round over the other.

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Location: austin and amarillo texas
Joined: 07/21/2007
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7mm-08 for Elk

35 whelen is considered a mid range cartridge only for those with bad eyes and those that lack the competence to shoot it straight at 200 yards, Ask some of the African PH's what they think about the Whelen as a plains game cartridge, then come talk your illinformed smack.

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Joined: 06/18/2007
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7mm-08 for Elk

Have you ever been to Africa ? My guess is you have not. I've gone to South Africa two times, and I guide for a living for 15 yrs now in WA, If you honestly think a 35 whelen is a long range big game rifle your wrong ! Ask around, the 7mm rem has taken more plains game than the whelen . When I shot my first Kudu I used a 300 wby and my guide had a 7mm rem mag, If you need to make a shot over 250 yds I would rather have my 7mm or my 300wby mag. 35 whalen and the 350 rem mag are brush guns designed for 200 yds and under thats it. I have hunted from Alaska to Africa and I have been a ph for 15yrs, so I ask how am I illinformed ? What kind of xp can you bring to the table ? Maybe you should Book a Elk hunt with my outfit so we can set you straight ., you should get some real experiense in the field, and not just sit behind your office desk and pretend to be a real sportsmen on a internet forum.

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Location: austin and amarillo texas
Joined: 07/21/2007
Posts: 195
7mm-08 for Elk

Wow, didn't realize I was speaking to Mark Sullivan here. I've only been to Africa once (Tanzania). Two cape buffs, which was what I was primarily interested in. I took my 338 win mag as a plains game rifle. And yes, it is more effective than a 35 whelen at longer distances, as is the 300 (I use a 300 weatherby often). I used a 416 remington for the buff, which also shoots flat enough for most plains game. I'm taking my whelen next time.

Here is my paragraph with regards to, and I quote, "experiense"... obviously didn't get an education with all that hunting. I have been hunting elk for around 20 years, I guided elk hunts for 3 years between college and graduate school at the JA ranch southeast of Denver CO. Didn't dig the desk jobs after law school, so now I manage two ranches, one being family owned. I've hunted both mule deer, white tail, pig, and sheep on this ranch my whole life. These stats may not be as good as the back of your hunter's card, but I've been around the block captain full of cr@p.

I generally don't like to shoot at anything much further away than 200 yards, just as most responsible hunters. The Whelen is effective, energy and otherwise, beyond this point. A 250 grainer only drops about 4 inches more than a 180 grain 7mm mag at 200 yards.
People that consider the whelen a bush, or medium range gun, are those that don't reload for it and only reiterate what they've heard from others.

The 7mm might have killed more African animals, but that doesn't mean it works better genius. Again, I'm not arguing for the popularity of the calibers, I'm just saying, mine works better up to 2 hunsky because it puts a lot bigger hole in the bugger it hits. In conclusion, I apologize for even attempting to converse with the apparent kingpen of all things rifle. To think that I, with as little as 20 years experience and only 3 guiding, would have the audacity to disagree with the J. O'Connor of the new millenium is nothing short of heresy. I tell you what... you call me a charlatan, I'll sit here and smile behind my desk laughing at how seriously you take yourself. Wow...you really do think you are something special psycho. That's all I got, and if you would like to further discuss this subject, please send me a private message so that we don't have to trouble everyone else with your bad B.S..

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Joined: 06/18/2007
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7mm-08 for Elk

[maddenwh quote]"Don fischer- I'm definitely not an expert on African hunting as I have actually never been. However, I do have one planned for 09'. Also, I was a hunting guide just West of Denver, Colorado on a ran"

YOU'RE A FUCKING LIAR !

Just another internet tough guy

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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Joined: 05/03/2006
Posts: 100
7mm-08 for Elk

I am very disappointed to find namecalling on this forum. I thought the forum was for everyone to share opinions.

I have succeeded in things over the years that "experts" told me would never work. I often enjoy the definition of the "expert" as a has been with a drip of the end.

Gentlemen - we are entitled to have our own opinions and I feel it is inappropriate to belittle another individual for their beliefs.

Aloha from Hawaii

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7mm-08 for Elk

Haiku_rodney we agree.

The parties involved in the namecalling have been PM'ed.

They are expected to shape up and cease the namecalling. It will not be tolerated on this forum.

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Joined: 05/05/2006
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7mm-08 for Elk

There sure is no better way to start an agrument that to say or even ask what caliber to use for elk. As far as the 7mm-08 for elk? Well just consider that for decades calibers such as the .30-06 Sprgfld, 7mmX57 Mauser, .308 Win, .270 win, and .280 Rem, 7mm Mag. have all been use with great success to humanely take elk. While there is nothing wrong with using bigger. I just don't see it really nessesary unless it satisfies someone's ego.

Myself? I use a .270 Win with my own handloaded 130 grain Speer Grand Slam bullets. Though I have use 150 grain bullets before. Never had any failures to kill an elk the times I've hit them.

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Location: austin and amarillo texas
Joined: 07/21/2007
Posts: 195
7mm-08 for Elk

To model 170 man- I'm not a liar, and I'll be happy to show you pics. I'm no expert on Africa as I stated and have not been since I was a child. That's why I stated your quoted statement. I did guide for elk for a few years and can show pics etc. You can even go to the website of the particular ranch I guided on, or any of the ranches that I share in management/ownership. I think there are still pics of some of the guys I guided and their trophies. Probably pics of me with my muzzle loader as well. Used to only muzzle load so as not to take up hun ting spots of paying customers, but I've been elk hunting my whole life. Don't know how to post pics so, if you want to see some of the elk shot on the ranch you, or anyone else, may visit http://www.ranches.org/elk_hunting_in_colorado.htm

I do have a trip planned for 09'. I refrain from the name calling here and provide a quote that I stated several posts ago. You started this, I'll end it by apologizing to anyone offended by my reaction to this fella's attacks.

"I'll take my Whelen, along with several other calibers, over a 7mm any day. Let's agree to disagree... I'm not trying to start a fight because frankly, I don't have the attention span, nor do I have a mean bone in my body."

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Joined: 06/18/2007
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7mm-08 for Elk

So when did you go to Tanzania ??? You shot two cape buffalo when you were a child ? Hmm... taking a small child on a dangerous game hunt doesn't strike me as proper parenting. What caliber did you shoot the buffalo with ? Being a child I would think recoil would be a factor.

So let's get this straight: first you say you've been to Africa and shot two Cape Buffalo. Then you say you've "never been" to Africa. NOW you say that you WERE in Africa, but only when you were a child. Was that trip when you shot your buffalo? Honestly, all insults aside, how do you expect your opinion on anything to matter when we obviously know that you haven't told the truth at LEAST once in this discussion?

This forum is supposed to be for us to share experiences and give advice, not stroke our own ego or make up stories about hunts we've been on and animals we've bagged. Even if I didnt like you before, this whole thing makes me realize that you're doing nothing more than handing out advice on subjects you apprently know nothing about. Or did you honestly gather all this valuable buffalo information when you were a kid? Inquiring minds want to know.