337 replies [Last post]
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
Back after losing time to a

Back after losing time to a lightning fried computer. Test in 3.5" plastic using a few accutip 12ga sabots out of factory loads. The 12ga accutip sabot, hard cast 440gr 58cal minie slug in 36" rifled NEF at 2200, and it went through 12 inches of wood like butter. The hole out showed it was starting to expand a little. Test of softer lead 500gr 58cal Minie with deeper hollowbase in accutip in smooth cylinder bore barrel at 2000, and 3 shots in 3" at 30 yds. This was a Lyman 575213 new style minie slug More experimenting can make these work fair in smooth barrels. For best accuracy use a blunt nose heavier 58cal 600gr slug with deepest hollow in the base. The blunt nose would be more front end heavy and a little more accurate from smooth bore.. Lee and Lyman have molds like that.Others selling slugs also. I mentioned before about seals/wads must be stable and not crush down off center, or it might affect accuracy. Here is picture of the one piece seal and wad Federal uses in their sabot loads. Notice it doesn't have a lot of space in the cushion part that would allow it to tip or go off center.

Here is picture of some 10ga work using expanded 69cal minie and 700cal bullets in 10ga wadcup. 69cal hollowbase fairly accurate to 50yds in heavy barrel smoothbore.

Here is picture of the Savage 110 done in my 585HE. Hollow butt of the stock is weighted, gun handles nice.Ed


Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
  With other scoped NEF Ultra


With other scoped NEF Ultra 12ga, 24 inch


barrel, shot hard cast, 400 gr 58cal Lyman Minie


in Accutip sabot at 75 yds. Hit small paper plate


5 for 5. Going 2000fps.




Speaking of 585HE above. We have two in falling blocks,


10 bolt guns,5 break actions, and other types.


A fun cartridge, and now that we are working with


58cal slugs in 12ga sabots, 58 cal is where it is at..


And now we are getting a run of 585HE cases made.


Bertram getting ready to make the last die;


done later this month and will be doing cases then.


Cases are 3 bucks each, bulk shipping included.


He usually charges 5 or more for wildcats, but as


I'm furnishing final sizing die, and he will ship


by bulk freight saving him handling, and he had


a couple tools already to use, he said $3 each, a


real good deal..


He will ship whole bulk order to me.


I will pass them on to everyone buying in first run.


I'll will get a bunch also, to load for others,


to fill orders, and collectors. Get 50 for 150 bucks,get


100 for 300 bucks, 167 cases for 500 bucks.


I'm having guys just make out MO to Bertram Bullets


and get it to me and I send them on to him.


I'll keep track of who gets what and ship cases to


the guys helping with first run, no shipping charge.


Want to make the run as big as possible. Got


money ready to go for over 700.


Like to get 3-4 times as many made if possible.

Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
Sorry, late in posting, bad

Sorry, late in posting, bad weather, computer lines zapped again. Some more experimenting with the Accutip sabots, Designed a two ball load using .577" cast lead balls. Bottom ball flattened a little in vise with the flats up and down in sabot. Used a fold crimp, 3.5" once fired REM case in NEF, long rifled barrel.....Fold crimp goes down on the top ball...Round balls 285gr each, going about 1900 hit within 2 inches at 30 yds. Those 58 cal inside Accutip sabots are really versatile. Tested 3 shots with 58cal Buffalo hollowpoint, hollowbase, lead, muzzleloading slugs, 2" at 30yds. All loads with plastic x12x seal and white felt cushion under sabot. Experimenting with an Enfield, had one set up with my 700HE 3.25, and just did one in my longer 700HE. Did little longer port and added little more weight.First picture. 2nd picture is a neat 3 barrel 16ga, which if I had it,deepen chamber, I'd have a neat 16ga FH....Ed




PS---We are gaining on getting the big run of brass made for our 585HE. He is finishing the tooling and soon be producing. We want make the run as big as possible so everyone is welcome to help. You in US get in on first order, cases are $3 each.Those in the US he'll send whole order to me bulk freight, a big savings, and I'll get them to the parties involved, no charge for helping out on first run.The $3 cost is a great bargain compared to other big bore cases and if you buy 150 or so you've saved enough, over the cost of others to buy a barrel to make 585HE gun with. My contact--- gunowner at journey.com For those in Australia,Canada,South Africa,UK, and other countries make arrangments with Bertram, he'll send to you when done. Now I can't afford export costs to send cases back out of US... .

Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
Here is picture of the two

Here is picture of the two ball sabot load, using two 58cal balls in a 12ga Accutip style sabot.




Hoping we will have sabot like above for reloading soon, in volumn so we can load and test a bunch of these 58cal bullets and slugs. There are soft cast, hard cast, and the heavier jacketed. These all work in my 585HE also. The 440gr hollowbase ones loose in the big box on left measure in at .585" and work great in my 585HE cases.



Part of my 585HEs are smooth barrels guns just for testing the different style guns, and different loads. In the one smooth barreled one I have on BBK action, shooting my 585HE with 440 gr hollowbased Minie slug, we were hitting 8 inch paper plate with them going about 2700 at 30yds. Hollowbased they act like shotgun slug at short ranges. Will be neat deal to shoot them in 12ga accutip style sabots in rifled 12 gauges and the smoothbore 585HEs with $30 barrels. Here is picture of Pedretti(Beretta style) that came as 10ga. I have monoblocked in 585 barrel. In picture there is 585HE case partly out of chamber. I have extra fairly heavy 10ga barrel also and changes in 2 minutes. And that monoblock break action locks up like a bank vault.Real strong.




And an ultimate big bore from history.ED


Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
We hope a company will be

We hope a company will be making our modeled 12ga sabots
soon, this fall, to deliver to reloaders and suppliers..
We also got first part of funds collected for the initial big run
for our 585HE long cases being made. Sending in bunch
this week, and need more to make run bigger For more info
if your interested contact me.

We, others, and 'VdoMemorie' on the Cast Bullet forums
and Shotgun World are experimenting with 58cal Minie slugs and
58cal round balls in 20ga wadcups, and find it is away to slug
load your 20ga economically. You can use 20ga Commander wad and
also shorter "sporting 20 short" wad from BPI. I cut bottom off of
commander and use felt wads and 20ga obturator seal with .575"
470gr minie slug and got 4" group at 30 yds, with smooth barrel.
That is with heavy thick,smooth barrel I put in CBC below.

Here is picture of the CBC break action that I mono-blocked in smooth
super heavy, thick 20ga barrel..30" long, chambered for 3.5" cases.
Works great with 3.5" plastic or brass cases.


Here is picture of the 1887 WIn with my 585HE in it. I put in a
heavy barrel and different kind of extractor Barrel is 28"..
I like putting my 585HE in all the old style of guns, just
to show all the uses the case has.


I found supply of super long bmg cases to make my 700HE Long cases.
It is 4.27" long and holds over 370 gr ball powder, 1000gr at 3400 plus.
I have it in my Vulcan BMG bolt action and I just got one done in
a MRC PH bolt gun, below...Ed


Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
I found pics of a factory

I found pics of a factory 12ga over under that
has bottom barrel rifled, top one smooth with
chokes. Will have pics few days. Also pics of
585HE case samples from the first run
of my 585HE cases, Bertram is doing.ED

Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
Here is breach picture of

Here is breach picture of that 12ga O/U made by Armi-Lumar It has the bottom barrel rifled right from factory, top barrel smooth, with interchangeble chokes. A real neat gun.



Good news, I got few samples of first production run of my 585HE cases from Bertram, to test for strength and measure for uniformity. They all measure perfect and especially the belt length headspace. He made part of the run, a 1000, without headstamp..And over 3000 with headstamp. Cases only 3 bucks each if you get in on the first shipment right away..Ship by mail to US cost too much, $1.50 each, so we will have a bulk freight shipment to US as big as possible. Folks in other countries order direct from Bertram. This case can be used in different style guns., Bolt, Falling blocks, Break actions, Etc. I have reamers, and dies. Manson Reamer can make more reamers,CH4D has dies also. Earlier in thread I've shown various 585HE guns we have set up. Here is a break action, with 585 barrel monoblocked in, one my favorites, we just got done.



I tested 585HE moderate loads(650gr @ 2400) in NEF, CBC, Pedretti, etc, break actions and didn't need sizing on the bottom 2/3. Real tough built cases. Cases, are real uniform. For high test loads we fired couple with 650gr at 3000 in Enfield bolt action, and it extracted ok, and resized ok back to specs. About a 62k psi load. Pockets tight. First picture, shown is some he made without headstamp that I stamped, and some with stamp and ones I made on the right.. Also they can be used for wildcats, shorter cases, etc, and folks can stamp what they want. 2nd picture you see them in a regular # 31 shellholder, they don't need a special holder.

In 3rd picture of sectioned cases, you can see how strong the cases are in base and corners, strong like the ones I made, on the left in picture, which were real strong cases, that worked great with max loads.. The new 585 from Bertram on the right in picture.Nice strong base/corners. He supplies same base cases for 408 Cheytac, used with hot sniper loads that run real high average pressures..He will be manufacturing these Cheytac runs regular, so we can get ours made anytime we get money built up for an order..Ed






Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
Here is overall view of the

Here is overall view of the Armi-Lumar O/U 12ga that has
one barrel rifled. Second is another view of the breach.
Nice looking gun.





Here is picture of the 58cal Minie bullets in 20ga BPI Commander
shotcup wads, and some 50cal bullets in 20ga BPI Sport shotcups.
Sport wads were too small inside and to tapered inside for 58 cal.
Other two are 458 bullets in a non-discarding base that had SPW,
Buckhamer type slugs in them, that someone took apart, that I got.
And one 100yd group shot by Ajay on ShotgunWorld with Sav 220
20ga,  with 20ga Commander  wad and 58cal cast Minie bullets
measured about 2 inches. Four shots in two inches.Ed



Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
First is picture of the 8ga

First is picture of the 8ga Falling Block with texturized paint finish on the stock. It enhances the grip quite a bit on hard recoil guns.



Second is the Greener that I have my 585 HE in.Also have 12ga barrel for it..



Third is Magtech singleshot action that I'm experimenting with putting on a thumbhole stock.


Fourth are the long bmg bulleted blank cases that I found, to use to make my 700HE Long case, 4.27" long. I have few extra sets of five in links like shown, extra to sell 5 at a time in links, if some need them for their collections, etc... Ed


Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 337
In our research to find

In our research to find economical and easy to use setups to load 

various slug/sabot combos in 12, 20 and other gauges, You've

seen what we are doing with 58cal slugs in 12ga accutip type sabot we

are getting built, and 58cal slugs in 20ga BPI Commander shotwad.

You've seen pics of group shot by Ajay 58cal in 20ga Commander wad.

And Greg Sappington made 16ga HP slug that fit 12ga BPI CSD wad.

CSD wads are little thicker. In that vein we found another 20 ga combo 

that uses the BPI 20ga CSD wads and larger diameter of the 54cal 

muzzleloading slugs. Wad is thick and short so we can get the 

volumne of our slow powder we want in the loads for higher speeds.

And base of CSD 20ga wad is thicker and stronger than most wads.

. It doesn't have built on cushion, doesn't need cushion, which is not

needed for slow powder loads. Has a good built on powder seal.

It is long so it can be cut to fit any 54cal slug length.

 Best 54cal slugs to use are .543" and up.

There is .548" Sharps style 2nd  in picture from Dixie Gunworks.There is

54cal Great Plains in picture on left,  Far right in picture is 550 Magnum

jacketed bullets in 20ga CSD. Great for hogs, bear. There are a variety

of 54cal slugs you can cast or buy. Not big number like 58cal, but enough

to find good simple combo.  Shot 3" group with 54cal Great Plains in

CSD at 30 yds, smooth bore. 380gr going over  2000 fps.

Second picture shows they even work and fit good in 20ga RMC brass.

Fits  in a brass case real tight with .548" Sharps style slug in picture..









Third picture shows how we mono-block 585HE barrels into strong

singleshot break actions. Done it in NEFs, CBCs, Pedretti, Beretta, 

and the Magtech 199 shown above.





Fourth picture is the O/U Tristar with 585HE on top and 3.5" 12ga bottom.

We sleeved the top barrel with .585" ID sleeve. We will use it with

the 58cal  .585" Minie hollowbase slugs. Bottom just for shot loads

with a interchangeable chokes. Ed





Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
2005 NWTF Browning BPS 12gagreen1320001/08/2010 18:40 pm
MAD SHEEP OF MAD RIVER VALLEY FOIAflounder009/02/2008 10:01 am
Perfect Elk Rifle/AmmoSingleShot210/02/2003 20:27 pm
Minimum Moose cartridgesaskie1909/11/2005 19:47 pm
Colorado Limited Draw ThreadAuroraRifleman3506/01/2015 08:52 am