295 replies [Last post]
Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
  With other scoped NEF Ultra

 

With other scoped NEF Ultra 12ga, 24 inch

 

barrel, shot hard cast, 400 gr 58cal Lyman Minie

 

in Accutip sabot at 75 yds. Hit small paper plate

 

5 for 5. Going 2000fps.

 

 

 

Speaking of 585HE above. We have two in falling blocks,

 

10 bolt guns,5 break actions, and other types.

 

A fun cartridge, and now that we are working with

 

58cal slugs in 12ga sabots, 58 cal is where it is at..

 

And now we are getting a run of 585HE cases made.

 

Bertram getting ready to make the last die;

 

done later this month and will be doing cases then.

 

Cases are 3 bucks each, bulk shipping included.

 

He usually charges 5 or more for wildcats, but as

 

I'm furnishing final sizing die, and he will ship

 

by bulk freight saving him handling, and he had

 

a couple tools already to use, he said $3 each, a

 

real good deal..

 

He will ship whole bulk order to me.

 

I will pass them on to everyone buying in first run.

 

I'll will get a bunch also, to load for others,

 

to fill orders, and collectors. Get 50 for 150 bucks,get

 

100 for 300 bucks, 167 cases for 500 bucks.

 

I'm having guys just make out MO to Bertram Bullets

 

and get it to me and I send them on to him.

 

I'll keep track of who gets what and ship cases to

 

the guys helping with first run, no shipping charge.

 

Want to make the run as big as possible. Got

 

money ready to go for over 700.

 

Like to get 3-4 times as many made if possible.

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
Sorry, late in posting, bad

Sorry, late in posting, bad weather, computer lines zapped again. Some more experimenting with the Accutip sabots, Designed a two ball load using .577" cast lead balls. Bottom ball flattened a little in vise with the flats up and down in sabot. Used a fold crimp, 3.5" once fired REM case in NEF, long rifled barrel.....Fold crimp goes down on the top ball...Round balls 285gr each, going about 1900 hit within 2 inches at 30 yds. Those 58 cal inside Accutip sabots are really versatile. Tested 3 shots with 58cal Buffalo hollowpoint, hollowbase, lead, muzzleloading slugs, 2" at 30yds. All loads with plastic x12x seal and white felt cushion under sabot. Experimenting with an Enfield, had one set up with my 700HE 3.25, and just did one in my longer 700HE. Did little longer port and added little more weight.First picture. 2nd picture is a neat 3 barrel 16ga, which if I had it,deepen chamber, I'd have a neat 16ga FH....Ed

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/en700he.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/triple16.jpg[/IMG]

 

PS---We are gaining on getting the big run of brass made for our 585HE. He is finishing the tooling and soon be producing. We want make the run as big as possible so everyone is welcome to help. You in US get in on first order, cases are $3 each.Those in the US he'll send whole order to me bulk freight, a big savings, and I'll get them to the parties involved, no charge for helping out on first run.The $3 cost is a great bargain compared to other big bore cases and if you buy 150 or so you've saved enough, over the cost of others to buy a barrel to make 585HE gun with. My contact--- gunowner at journey.com For those in Australia,Canada,South Africa,UK, and other countries make arrangments with Bertram, he'll send to you when done. Now I can't afford export costs to send cases back out of US... .

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
Here is picture of the two

Here is picture of the two ball sabot load, using two 58cal balls in a 12ga Accutip style sabot.

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/58ballsabot.jpg[/IMG]

 

Hoping we will have sabot like above for reloading soon, in volumn so we can load and test a bunch of these 58cal bullets and slugs. There are soft cast, hard cast, and the heavier jacketed. These all work in my 585HE also. The 440gr hollowbase ones loose in the big box on left measure in at .585" and work great in my 585HE cases.

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/all58sl.jpg[/IMG]

 

Part of my 585HEs are smooth barrels guns just for testing the different style guns, and different loads. In the one smooth barreled one I have on BBK action, shooting my 585HE with 440 gr hollowbased Minie slug, we were hitting 8 inch paper plate with them going about 2700 at 30yds. Hollowbased they act like shotgun slug at short ranges. Will be neat deal to shoot them in 12ga accutip style sabots in rifled 12 gauges and the smoothbore 585HEs with $30 barrels. Here is picture of Pedretti(Beretta style) that came as 10ga. I have monoblocked in 585 barrel. In picture there is 585HE case partly out of chamber. I have extra fairly heavy 10ga barrel also and changes in 2 minutes. And that monoblock break action locks up like a bank vault.Real strong.

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/ped585.jpg[/IMG]

 

And an ultimate big bore from history.ED

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/railgun.jpg[/IMG]

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
We hope a company will be

We hope a company will be making our modeled 12ga sabots
soon, this fall, to deliver to reloaders and suppliers..
We also got first part of funds collected for the initial big run
for our 585HE long cases being made. Sending in bunch
this week, and need more to make run bigger For more info
if your interested contact me.

We, others, and 'VdoMemorie' on the Cast Bullet forums
and Shotgun World are experimenting with 58cal Minie slugs and
58cal round balls in 20ga wadcups, and find it is away to slug
load your 20ga economically. You can use 20ga Commander wad and
also shorter "sporting 20 short" wad from BPI. I cut bottom off of
commander and use felt wads and 20ga obturator seal with .575"
470gr minie slug and got 4" group at 30 yds, with smooth barrel.
That is with heavy thick,smooth barrel I put in CBC below.

Here is picture of the CBC break action that I mono-blocked in smooth
super heavy, thick 20ga barrel..30" long, chambered for 3.5" cases.
Works great with 3.5" plastic or brass cases.

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/20gacbc.jpg[/IMG]

Here is picture of the 1887 WIn with my 585HE in it. I put in a
heavy barrel and different kind of extractor Barrel is 28"..
I like putting my 585HE in all the old style of guns, just
to show all the uses the case has.

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/585in87.jpg[/IMG]

I found supply of super long bmg cases to make my 700HE Long cases.
It is 4.27" long and holds over 370 gr ball powder, 1000gr at 3400 plus.
I have it in my Vulcan BMG bolt action and I just got one done in
a MRC PH bolt gun, below...Ed

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/ph700helong.jpg[/IMG]

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
I found pics of a factory

I found pics of a factory 12ga over under that
has bottom barrel rifled, top one smooth with
chokes. Will have pics few days. Also pics of
585HE case samples from the first run
of my 585HE cases, Bertram is doing.ED

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
Here is breach picture of

Here is breach picture of that 12ga O/U made by Armi-Lumar It has the bottom barrel rifled right from factory, top barrel smooth, with interchangeble chokes. A real neat gun.

 

 

Good news, I got few samples of first production run of my 585HE cases from Bertram, to test for strength and measure for uniformity. They all measure perfect and especially the belt length headspace. He made part of the run, a 1000, without headstamp..And over 3000 with headstamp. Cases only 3 bucks each if you get in on the first shipment right away..Ship by mail to US cost too much, $1.50 each, so we will have a bulk freight shipment to US as big as possible. Folks in other countries order direct from Bertram. This case can be used in different style guns., Bolt, Falling blocks, Break actions, Etc. I have reamers, and dies. Manson Reamer can make more reamers,CH4D has dies also. Earlier in thread I've shown various 585HE guns we have set up. Here is a break action, with 585 barrel monoblocked in, one my favorites, we just got done.

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/585mt1.jpg[/IMG]

I tested 585HE moderate loads(650gr @ 2400) in NEF, CBC, Pedretti, etc, break actions and didn't need sizing on the bottom 2/3. Real tough built cases. Cases, are real uniform. For high test loads we fired couple with 650gr at 3000 in Enfield bolt action, and it extracted ok, and resized ok back to specs. About a 62k psi load. Pockets tight. First picture, shown is some he made without headstamp that I stamped, and some with stamp and ones I made on the right.. Also they can be used for wildcats, shorter cases, etc, and folks can stamp what they want. 2nd picture you see them in a regular # 31 shellholder, they don't need a special holder.

In 3rd picture of sectioned cases, you can see how strong the cases are in base and corners, strong like the ones I made, on the left in picture, which were real strong cases, that worked great with max loads.. The new 585 from Bertram on the right in picture.Nice strong base/corners. He supplies same base cases for 408 Cheytac, used with hot sniper loads that run real high average pressures..He will be manufacturing these Cheytac runs regular, so we can get ours made anytime we get money built up for an order..Ed

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/new585head.jpg[/IMG]

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/new585hold.jpg[/IMG]

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/new585sec.jpg[/IMG]

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
Here is overall view of the

Here is overall view of the Armi-Lumar O/U 12ga that has
one barrel rifled. Second is another view of the breach.
Nice looking gun.

 

 

 

 

Here is picture of the 58cal Minie bullets in 20ga BPI Commander
shotcup wads, and some 50cal bullets in 20ga BPI Sport shotcups.
Sport wads were too small inside and to tapered inside for 58 cal.
Other two are 458 bullets in a non-discarding base that had SPW,
Buckhamer type slugs in them, that someone took apart, that I got.
And one 100yd group shot by Ajay on ShotgunWorld with Sav 220
20ga,  with 20ga Commander  wad and 58cal cast Minie bullets
measured about 2 inches. Four shots in two inches.Ed

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/20gasport.jpg[/IMG]

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
First is picture of the 8ga

First is picture of the 8ga Falling Block with texturized paint finish on the stock. It enhances the grip quite a bit on hard recoil guns.

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/8gafinish.jpg[/IMG]

Second is the Greener that I have my 585 HE in.Also have 12ga barrel for it..

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/585greener.jpg[/IMG]

Third is Magtech singleshot action that I'm experimenting with putting on a thumbhole stock.

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/585mt2.jpg[/IMG]

Fourth are the long bmg bulleted blank cases that I found, to use to make my 700HE Long case, 4.27" long. I have few extra sets of five in links like shown, extra to sell 5 at a time in links, if some need them for their collections, etc... Ed

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/bmgblanks.jpg[/IMG]

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
In our research to find

In our research to find economical and easy to use setups to load 

various slug/sabot combos in 12, 20 and other gauges, You've

seen what we are doing with 58cal slugs in 12ga accutip type sabot we

are getting built, and 58cal slugs in 20ga BPI Commander shotwad.

You've seen pics of group shot by Ajay 58cal in 20ga Commander wad.

And Greg Sappington made 16ga HP slug that fit 12ga BPI CSD wad.

CSD wads are little thicker. In that vein we found another 20 ga combo 

that uses the BPI 20ga CSD wads and larger diameter of the 54cal 

muzzleloading slugs. Wad is thick and short so we can get the 

volumne of our slow powder we want in the loads for higher speeds.

And base of CSD 20ga wad is thicker and stronger than most wads.

. It doesn't have built on cushion, doesn't need cushion, which is not

needed for slow powder loads. Has a good built on powder seal.

It is long so it can be cut to fit any 54cal slug length.

 Best 54cal slugs to use are .543" and up.

There is .548" Sharps style 2nd  in picture from Dixie Gunworks.There is

54cal Great Plains in picture on left,  Far right in picture is 550 Magnum

jacketed bullets in 20ga CSD. Great for hogs, bear. There are a variety

of 54cal slugs you can cast or buy. Not big number like 58cal, but enough

to find good simple combo.  Shot 3" group with 54cal Great Plains in

CSD at 30 yds, smooth bore. 380gr going over  2000 fps.

Second picture shows they even work and fit good in 20ga RMC brass.

Fits  in a brass case real tight with .548" Sharps style slug in picture..

 

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/csd20.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/csd20-2.jpg[/IMG]

 

Third picture shows how we mono-block 585HE barrels into strong

singleshot break actions. Done it in NEFs, CBCs, Pedretti, Beretta, 

and the Magtech 199 shown above.

 

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/monostub.jpg[/IMG]

 

Fourth picture is the O/U Tristar with 585HE on top and 3.5" 12ga bottom.

We sleeved the top barrel with .585" ID sleeve. We will use it with

the 58cal  .585" Minie hollowbase slugs. Bottom just for shot loads

with a interchangeable chokes. Ed

 

 

 [IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/585ou.jpg[/IMG]

 

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 296
Little work on non-discarding

Little work on non-discarding 12ga sabots,You can get SPW

wads without slugs in them and we set up one for a light load.

We put a 20ga Lyman in some and they stay together ok. Just 

shorten the bottom skirt of Lyman and bevel the bottom corner.

Total weight sabot and all is 360gr,,Shown In the picture..

 We also shrunk the skirt  of the 12ga Lyman cast slug and put it

in 12ga SPW wads and total about 550gr. If you have Lyman

12ga mold, can use it as pattern to make a slug to go into a

SPW wad. Leave the top part same as original Lyman and make

 bottom so it fits in the SPW with real tight fit.

 

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/lymanspw12.jpg[/IMG]

 

I like to use P14/M17 Enfields for our testing. Great for my 585HE

case and in picture it shows how we change the sear spring to one

on the back of the sear. So we can open up the bottom to feed

the long cases from singlestack magazine box by removing the

unneeded front of the sear and  metal above it in the bottom, giving

room to the back, for cases that are 3.9" plus overall loaded  length.

 

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/bspring.jpg[/IMG]

 

Couple guys who are setting up 585HEs  in singleshots are going

to shoot 58cal Minies and other bullets  and use black powder 

and/or substitutes. So I tested some with Pyrodex pellets,

Used 54cal,  60gr equivalent and they stack in the case ok,

and just beveled corner of bottom one so it set tight to the base.

As the case has good inside radius. Used 3 pellets with 24ga

card over pellets, 3/8" felt wad and another card with 440gr Minie.

There is a certain nostalgia about all that sulfur smell.If you can

stand the cleaning. Slug going 2100.. 4 pellets about 2400.

 

Here is picture of another long bullet in sabot/wad , in 12ga that 

was sent to me. Ajay on Shotgun World put these together.

 

[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/vdolong.jpg[/IMG]

 

Did some testing, 12ga plastic & brass with new super slow RE-33 powder.

It fires off ok in 12ga with 700gr and heavier slugs, with shotgun primers

like RE-17 which is much slower than shotgun powders. .

 It is made the same way as RE-17  as far as how  the rate of burn 

deterrent is put into the powder. Which is why it ignites in large diameter 

cases like 12ga and BMG with shotgun primers. Really be great for super 

heavy 1100 to 1500 grain slugs to get good speed and keep case damaging

peak pressures down. Example in 3.5" Fiocchi 12ga plastic case, 690gr slug in

BPI Helix Driver Wad with 180 gr RE-33 the basecup only expanded .002".

And they are thinner basecup than some..Ed 

 

 

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
What did you harvest in 2009 ???HOGGETTER501/23/2010 15:53 pm
Hunting SuggestionsAlphaMan408/08/2005 10:46 am
WTB: Browning 12ga. A-Bolt slug gunwishfish108/23/2008 19:06 pm
Remington 870 Wingmaster 12ga. PumpBronx1301/09/2004 17:51 pm
Winchester PDX 1 12ga for pigs???Alpine_Archer602/09/2011 12:38 pm