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Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
We are always looking for way

We are always looking for way to shoot 8 and 10s
using easy to get components,cheap, without buying
loaded rounds for big bucks, if available at all.

In 8ga falling block, plastic got 930gr hollowbase
slug to 2300, It is a slug for 10 ga that we expanded
base a little to fit tight in 8ga wadcup. On the left in
picture. At 30 yds 3" group. Just with open sight,
About like the 10ga sight bead. There is enough hollow in
the base it flies pretty good from 8ga smooth barrel.

Along same line, in my 10ga 32" smooth bull barrel with a
750 gr .69cal hollowbase Dixie MZ slug in VP100
10ga wadcup about same speed and same accuracy.
Nice to just get a box of slugs that is in stock,
and a 2cent cent wadcup and Fed 3.5" 10ga plastic cases
and be shooting cheap.And the cases roll crimp nice
down to these slugs.

And also the hotrod 20 ga 3.5" Hastings factory loads in
a smooth barrel moderate weight 20ga shoots about
same accuracy even though they say for rifled, but that
SPW slug/wad combo has enough plastic/seal on the back
and that it shoots like a Brenekke. The new 28ga Brenekkes
out of 28ga NEF modified choke barrel shoots same at 30yds.
Scoped guns and good eyes would shrink groups.Ed

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
A different, interesting

A different, interesting style, of 12ga slug, from Russia. Firstm picture loaded round, in plastic, roll crimped. Second, two types of slugs they have on the same base. Base for rifled barrel, little smaller diameter on the front. Looks like the roll crimp locks against the edge of the base. Neat idea, and it could have a flat meplat slug on the front of the base like the US-S brass slugs fron Greece are on the plastic bases that I have here. They must use a crimping die with a deep hollow up in the middle. We have thought of taking a roll crimper and putting a deeper recess in middle to load longer nose slugs further out so as to have more room for our slower powders.Ed

 

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
Here is picture of 4 long

Here is picture of 4 long cases of RIP's on the AR forum. Top being a Rocky Mtn Cartridge 3.5" turned brass 20ga. In 20ga getting these and lengthening chambers allows use of the 3.5" 20ga plastic also. Some factory guns are 3.5" Next a RMC 3.5" turned brass 12ga. Chambered for these you can use 3.5" 12ga plastic also.Some guns are 3.5" from the factory. 3rd down our 3.85" 12ga FH we made from BMG brass. Bottom a RMC 3.85" turned brass 12ga FH case.

Next picture shows one of the old ways they locked slugs into paper cases. Many old slugs had a wide deep groove which made it possible to crimp that way.You can see one of those slugs in the picture.

 

 

More Testing 490gr 12ga full bore Lee style  in 3.5" plastic at 2200. Works in long barrel rifled NEF and the Khan 12ga 3.5" auto smooth bore. In same guns the 570gr US-S brass slug with locked on base at 1900 in 3.5" plastic worked also. It is great to see a smoothbore slug like the US-S that is as accurate as fullbore slugs from rifled barrels.Maybe they will be imported soon from European Cartridge.Ed

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Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
Here are couple more pictures

Here are couple more pictures of longer bullets
in sabots, loaded in plastic cases, with the
roll crimp down against the sabot. Both are
ideas tested by European Cartridge in Greece,
who make the US-S slugs. Both longer bullets
pictured have the locked on base that their
other US-S slugs have, for smooth bore accuracy.
2nd picture shows a deep hollow roll crimper
for doing slugs like these.Ed

 

 

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
This picture of an RC4 brand

This picture of an RC4 brand slug I see is available
down under. It has locked base like Brenekke.
And locked on without discarding petals, like US-S.

And 2nd picture is a group fired with RC4 slugs
by fellow on NitroExpress forums from
double 12ga, 2 left and 2 rights at 25yds.
This shows the posibilities of smoothbores,
rather than not trying to perfect them.

3rd picture is a discarding sabot base, and with
four discarding sabot carriers, with centered
penetrating solid bullet, from France.Ed

  

 

 

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
Some more slug and sabot

Some more slug and sabot ideas folks are doing.

First is a long pointed slug with locked on base,
It goes to target with base,can work smoothbore.

Second is picture of Hexolit sabot base slug
with petals expanded, sure would make bad wound.

Third shows a variety of Gualandi slugs you can
get for reloading, and we're finding that these
locked base slugs, Brenekke/USS style slugs, are
giving good accuracy in smooth barrels which can
save when doing heavy barrels.Weights shown in
grams, get our weights in grains multiply by 15.4..Ed

 

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
Here are some more sabot/slug

Here are some more sabot/slug and loading concepts.

First is Alcan 2.75" paper case with Dixie 600gr slug,
with the side of the case crimped into the relief/lube
groove of the Dixie slug.The groove in the Dixie isn't
quite as deep as the groove in the Fosbury slug shown
in earlier post, but still seems to crimp fairly tight.

 

 

Next are various slugs in 12ga REM sabots that take
57 cal slugs and bullets.Those sabots are from the REM
Accutip loadings. In picture you can see one of the
REM 385gr jkt bullets they use. Also  is sabot
with 20ga cast Lyman. On right sabot with hardcast 585 cal
640gr lead bullet, the ones I use in my 585HE wildcat
case. I sized it down a little, perfect fit.
Also the .575 cal Dixie Gunworks lead slugs will do.

Also shown is a long pointed 55 Boys bullet in one,
fairly tight fit.We  cut back .3" of bullet off so it
fit for length in sabot and is 750gr.

 

 

Third are 3.5" brass and plastic with the REM sabot and
the 750gr pointed slugs in them.In all the sabot work we
and others have done, trying to get accuracy and high
speeds together, maybe there is such a thing as too
much plastic. IE, sabots too thick on the sides if doing
50cal or smaller in 12ga sabots, for heavier slugs
at high speeds. Thinner sides may discard more evenly at
the greater pressures and violence of high speeds.
Thin sides may have less give so that sabot grips slug
better to impart spin in rifled  use. Example in
smoothbore use is the USS slugs, where the brass slug
is .629" with thin discarding petals that have proven to
be very accurate. And with both reasonable priced sabot
offerings the last few years being undersize, accuracy
problems, etc,  maybe time to try something else.

Got to find whole bunch of these sabots. Are these pictured
12ga REMs the only 58cal ones around? I can't find others,
and maybe we can  find where these are made. As I have
huge numbers of the 585 slugs, which by the way I think
is best hunting combination, without extremely heavy slugs
which suffer for the speeds needed for longer range use.
It is hard lead, good for big game.And my guy can make many,
many more if needed whether for 585HE rifles
or in sabots if we can find some.ED

 

 

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
Some more sabot and slug

Some more sabot and slug ideas, discarding types
and locked on base types.

First picture of 20ga Buckhamer pulled apart. The bunch
I have were pulled apart, the slug won't lock back in
tight, into the base.

 

Second is various 20ga sabot/slug ideas some using
buckhammer sabot bases that a bunch of 458 cal lead
slugs and jackted slugs I have, lock into real tight.
The 458 lead ones are 400gr, jkt are 350gr.

And I got some empty SPW 20 gauge sabots, and 20ga
Buckhammer slugs lock into them real tight.I have
many of these slugs. These slugs are 440gr.

Also is 3" 20ga FED factory sabot shell and one of
discarding  sabots out of the case. Also a 3.5" 20ga
Hastings load with black locked on base sabot,
and sabots out of the case

Next is variety of 12ga sabots with 50cal slugs
in them.2 white and the pink sabot are FED, The black
is Hornady, With a 50cal long bullet .
The grey, is a BPI with .504" cast 440gr slug.
I wish the BPI was full size like the others
and fit rifled barrels tight for accuracy.........

 

Last 12ga SPWs from Slug-R-US(30 cents ea) with various
50 cal slugs locked in tight, and shown with one out of
a factory load, the dark colored one. 50cal 385gr
Great Plains ML slugs lock in perfect for a lighter
loading. Other ML slugs  will do and a few of
the Dixie Gunworks 50cal slugs lock in also...Ed

 

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
Some more slug setups and

Some more slug setups and ideas.

First is USS brand sabot that European cartridge has, without
locked base, a discarding 12ga sabot, with .629" brass slug.
It is as accurate in rifled barrel as its locked on base
counterpart, in smooth barrels. Up to 750 gr brass slug
I tested. 3 shots in an inch, 30yds.
Shown with BPI powder cup seals.

 

 2nd is the USS slugs with locked on base for comparison.
With corresponding length cases they were designed for.

 

3rd are heavy solid tungsten slugs, the smaller .580" cal and
1200gr, the bigger ones .660" cal and 2200 gr.
A guy in Southern  MI made a few for me to check out. Now these
too hard to fire fullbore, damage rifling, must be in plastic. 
These are just what the super heavy slug guys might like.

 

4th is a 1000gr 58cal tungsten slug in a 12ga REM style
58cal sabot. Notice how short it is for being super heavy.

 

Offline
Location: Brinton, MI
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 293
Here is some more older

Here is some more older cartridges and ideas.
First is a fellows collection of older brass cases.
They look like Berdan primed. Run from
36ga to 12ga, big one on right is flare cartridge.

 

Second is a paper case clad with
thin  brass nearly to the top.

Third is picture of paper case crimped into
the side of a slug with shallow grooves.I did one
pictured above with a Dixie slug.

Some experimenting with 12ga discarding style sabot idea
that takes 58cal slugs/bullets.I pictured them above.
A fullbore,bore fitting sabot that takes 575-580 cal
slugs or bullets, cast or jacketed.

For reloaders to use, and not undersize ones
that have been available, for reloading guys. That
the guys haven't been able to get speed and accuracy
at the same time. These sabots are super accurate in
most tests, in factory Remington sabot loads. Much
more so than the undersize sabots reloaders have
had to work with.

I tested with the 440 gr .575cal hollowbase
Dixie Gunworks # BA-1103 lead slug and 3 shots from
heavy long  barrel NEF nearly into same hole, at
30yds. Gun locked down. Going about 2200.
Our slow powder loads in 3.5" plastic.
Can be loaded faster.

No tests at long range, bad eyes/no scope, colder
than witches ---, and no time.
I am trying to find who makes these.There are
about 2000 injection mold companies in US

 

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