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Joined: 12/03/2005
Posts: 6
357 Lever Action

been talkin to dad about rifles. I guess We're discussing what rifle he needs
to get. He's traded himself out of a few.... anyway he mentioned the lever action .357? what do ya'll know about this one. would this be like a close range rifle like a 30.30. we live around thick steep mtns and i reckon a close
range rifle would work nicely.

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Location: Utah
Joined: 03/02/2005
Posts: 383
357 Lever Action

30-30 Winchester has far superior ballistics and know-down power than a 357 Mag, which might be OK for training and very close range hunting, but for pure hunting purposes, the 30-30 is the more intelligent caliber to choose.

Recoil of the 30-30 is about 50% more than the 357 mag. If you choose the 357 mag, remember that most standard bullets were made for slower pistol velocities and they will often blow-up too quickly when hitting game at much higher rifle velocities.

For this reason, in 357 mag, I suggest you consider premium ammo only for hunting and save the standard (pistol designed) bullets for plinking.

________________

Here's a few 357 Magnum loads for hunters to consider as an emergency backup weapon or for hunting short distances using a revolver or carbine rifle:

1. Federal Premium 180-gr. Hardcast.

2. Winchester Supreme 180-gr. Partition Gold provides deep penetration and good expansion on all Big Game and can also crush heavy bone.

3. Hornady 180-gr. XTP Soft Point or JHP.

4. Speer 180-gr. Bonded Gold Dot Soft Point or JHP.

5. PMC 180-gr. Soft Point or JHP.

6. Double Tap 158-gr. Bonded Gold Dot JHP @ 1,400 fps in 4" Ruger GP-100 / 19.0" & .56".

6. Remington 165-gr. Core Lokt.

7. Hornady 158-gr. XTP Soft Point or JHP.

8. PMC 158-gr. Soft Point or JHP.

9. Double Tap 125-gr. FMJ Match @ 1,600 fps in 4" Ruger GP-100.

10. For emergency self defense, use: 1. 180-gr. Hardcast or 125-gr. FMJ Ball; 2. Run really fast

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Location: WI/MT
Joined: 02/01/2006
Posts: 67
357vs 30-30

I am a very big fan of the 357 in a lever. Very light rifles. Recoil is nice Handloader has a good article on it. I will try to find it. Everyone knows the 30 caliber is almost allways going to have a better B.C. than a 357 it's thinner. Wider is better comes into play here also. I don't want this to turn into the classic Elmer vs Jack argument. I will just tell you about my little 357. It is used for short range with open sights just like most people use a 30-30. No one buys a 30-30 for distance shooting but you sure can and do it well. I believe the 357 fills the short range nitch and a little more. Its ability to shoot very quiet loads in 38 special are nice for those dangerous tin cans and I like shooting rabbit and not having it explode. I was in Alabama for 2 years and shot 8 the first year and ten the second. yes things are a little different down there. Countless pigs. Farmers will pay you to shoot wild pigs and they taste awesome. The second year I used wheel weights and Lil Gun powder. Mostly to brag to my 300 Win friends that I had just killed a deer with a 3cent bullet. It is a medium load 30-30 with a much bigger hole. Those deer were all around 125lbs so we are not talking monster bucks. When I was home in MT near Darby, I did kill an elk with it, that someone had shot in the butt. I was on a horse and the little lever looks the part. He and his anoying guide were very suprised at what I was shooting. Also if you reload 30-30 it can be a pain with its very thin walls. Reloading 357 does not get any easier. I don't think it is some super round it is just more versatile than most people give it credit for especially when you put it in a rifle. If you do choose the little 357 let me know and I will be more than happy to compare rifle loads for this wonderful little round. Oh Barnes is just out with a 357 bullet I am very curious about this one.
Also Rossi has a lever 454 Casul(sp) out that you can shoot 45 colt in. Leverguns.com also has a lot to say on this, Paco is very sharp.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 11/09/2005
Posts: 166
357 Lever Action

Compare the ballistics. At 100 yards a .30-30 is still going to deliver more than 1200 ft./lbs. of energy, where a .357 is going to have less than 400 ft./lbs. That's a pretty significant difference. Yes, the .357 bullet is .049" larger in diameter--about 14%. But does that make up for having 1/3rd the energy at 100 yards? I don't think so.

I would consider the .357 a 50 yards or less gun on deer. The .30-30 is good out past 100 yards. Neither is a long-range gun, but the .30-30 gives you considerably more effective range than the .357.

Frankly, for deer hunting, I would consider this no-contest. Pick the .30-30.

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Location: Alabama
Joined: 08/25/2003
Posts: 634
357 Lever Action

I agree with denverdon. Even though in my early years I started with a Marlin .357 then moved to the 30-30. Being this isn't his first I would go with the 30-30.

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Location: WI/MT
Joined: 02/01/2006
Posts: 67
357 Lever Action

Which bullet weight are you using to get 1200ftlbs I will not argue that todays 30-30 is superior than a 357. If you look at a little history you will see when the 30-30 came out it was less than todays 357 in a rifle. At that time it was considered to be able to shoot anything in the lower 48. Your speeds that you quoted are from a 4 inch Ruger, not an 18 inch barrel. You will gain 200-350fps when using the right powder in a rifle. Now they are not so far behind. I am not near my load data but I think a 158 grain bullet can go around 1800fps I will get the exact stuff tomorow. Just for fun If I could choose just one I would go with the 30-30 or even a 308 which is close to the same size as a 30-30

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Location: WI/MT
Joined: 02/01/2006
Posts: 67
357 Lever Action

I was wrong you can get up to 600 fps in an 18.5 rifle compared to a 4 inch barrel. 14% you have just told ne that one line is longer than the other. Just so happens that this line is across a circle. Let us compare area not linear. When I grab a 5th grade math book to make sure my formula for the area of a circle or the frontal area of a bullet. I find out that the 357 is 26% larger. As I put the book away I realize 26% could be the difference of an A or a F for a student. I am not sure if this matters much but I do believe it is not a linear problem.
1/3rd the energy I think not. 1200ftlbs of difference I am going to assume you are talking 1200ftlbs of kinetic energy. This formula is simple, it is why we use it and to have something to compare. But it does have its flaws It puts the advantages to small fast bullets. If it was not flawed we would all be shooting 4000fps 22s with over 2000ftlbs of energy. Taylor's knockdown formula seems to lean on fat heavy bullets. Somewhere inbetween is the answer.

Head to head let us compare
1st round is the original 30-30 load from Legacy of lever Guns winter 2000 and from a 26 inch barrel!! muzzle velocity 1970fps
2nd round is the averaged 150 grain load from Winchester reload manual
2200fps 24inch barrel
3rd round is the averaged 170 " "
2060fps 24inch barrel
4th round 357 my chrony Rifle #213 and Speer reload manual
2050fps 18.5 inch barrel
5th is Buffalo Bore's 357 loaded ammo from Rifle #213
1900fps 18.5 inch barrel
sighted in at 50
100yrd 150yrd 200yrd
cal weight fps drop KE fps drop KE fps drop KE
3030 160 1783 1.72 1130 1690 6.08 1022 1613 13.38 925
3030 150 1816 1.38 1099 1646 5.29 903 1491 12.36 741
3030 170 1676 1.71 1061 1509 6.47 860 1360 14.86 698
357 158 1624 1.82 926 1444 6.8 732 1287 15.89 581
357 180 1613 2.05 1040 1486 7.36 883 1369 16.48 749

Oh by the way I can throw a bullet through the Chrony and get 100fps Most people have a 30-06 or a 270 to add a light weight brush gun is not a bad idea. The ability for me to grab bird shot go into the shop whack those pigeons sitting on the combine then walk the river shoot a beaver with a soft lead 38 in the head still have the pelt. then still have the ability to shoot at a deer makes this little gun worth a second look.

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Location: WI/MT
Joined: 02/01/2006
Posts: 67
357 Lever Action

100yrd 150yrd 200yrd
cal weight fps drop KE fps drop KE fps drop KE
3030 160 1783 1.72 1130 1690 6.08 1022 1613 13.38 925
3030 150 1816 1.38 1099 1646 5.29 903 1491 12.36 741
3030 170 1676 1.71 1061 1509 6.47 860 1360 14.86 698
357 158 1624 1.82 926 1444 6.8 732 1287 15.89 581
357 180 1613 2.05 1040 1486 7.36 883 1369 16.48 749

hope this is easier to read

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Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
357 Lever Action

I use a recurve bow and don't release beyond 40ish yards.
A short barreled 357 would make a great extra-light weight, fast, short range, easy to shoot, deer hunter that could be carried all day. There are many a deer taken at less than 50 yds. I would suggest the heaviest soft lead tip jacketed bullet you can fire with accuracy.

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Location: WI/MT
Joined: 02/01/2006
Posts: 67
357 for ever

another article in RIFLE Magazine (Handloaders other magazine) on the 357 with a direct comparison to the 30-30 150 grain silvertip. Good stuff.
After shooting some 180 grain soft lead tips and 170 grain gold dots. I am realy impressed with gold dot again. I don't think those soft 180 grain bullets penetrate enough except for maybe a lung shot. The gold dot travels allmost twice as far. Still waiting for my 140 grain Barnes bullets. I am having high hopes for it. Evil!

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