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Location: British Columbia
Joined: 05/03/2009
Posts: 10
300 win- accurate hunting load

I am shooting a Sako 75 in 300 win mag for game from mule deer to moose. Can get sub MOA accuracy with 168 Nosler balistic tip (.5-1") and 180 Barnes TSX (.5-.75"). I found that with the balistic tip I lost too much meat from complete fragmentation and the TSX did not provide much of a wound channel usually leaving a longer than reasonable expire time on the game. I went back to shooting the 180 Nosler Partition because of the previous terminal performance I had with it. The down side I am having with it is that the best I have been able to get my groups to is 1-1.5"@100yds and opening up to as much as 3.5" @ 200yds. I have settled with 75.5gr R22 with the bullet seated .016" off the land. Should I be expecting better grouping from this bullet or does someone possibly have another recepe I should try. Also wondering if anyone has any combinations developed with other premium hunting bullets that I may try out. I understand the Berger Bullets are gaining a lot of popularity. Can anyone tell me about what their impressions are in respect to accuracy, terminal performance and meat loss.

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Location: Nova Scotia
Joined: 08/17/2002
Posts: 1762
300 win- accurate hunting load

The big problem with the TSX has been their lack of expansion at times. Barnes came out with the new TTSX (tipped tsx) which is the tsx with a nylon tip to ensure proper expansion. If you are getting good accuracy out of the tsx I'd give these new ones a try first.

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
300 win- accurate hunting load

Chester from what I hear that new ttsx does dang near the same as the Nosler ballistic tip as far as damage.. I think he is trying to get away from a 3 inch hole. LoL. The Berger bullets are pretty sporty on penetration and expansion from what I have found so far in my 7mm mag and my 7mm.08. Great grouping as well. But thats outta my weapons. As any reloader knows aint no 2 guns alike. I have a matched pair with synchronous numbers winchester Model 70's in 30.06 and they cant stand each others loads!! (got them for my dad and I in case your wondering) Trial and error is part of the fun in reloading but in these days and economic times I guess its a little too dern expencive for a lot of folks. If I were you I would try the bergers. They do quite well in my weapons that I have loaded them for.

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Location: British Columbia
Joined: 05/03/2009
Posts: 10
300 win- accurate hunting load

Thank you both for your replies!
I do enjoy the accuracy I get from the Barnes and have seen a few advertisements on their TTSX. I actually did try to bring some in the last order I made but my supplier had not yet been stocking them. I suspect I will like to try them at least on paper. I see that Berger recomends a barrel twist of 1:12 for their 185 and 190gr hunting bullets and a 1:11 for the 210gr. Does this mean I would be waisting my money with my 1:11 twist barrel unless I stayed with the 210gr.? Cam, you mentioned expansion in your experience. Do you use these bullets for hunting and if so did they leave large exit holes or does the animal absorb all the energy? Where did you find your loading data for them?
Thanks again for your replies and I hope my questions don't seem a little stupid. As much as I do love the smell of the burning powder it does get a bit pricy experimenting with premium bullets in the 300 and due to my geographic location most of my shooting supplies requires to be shipped in.

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
300 win- accurate hunting load

Ok question one..Not sure. Sometimes those recommendations are dead on accurate and sometimes they are butt backwards. Trial and error is unfortunatly the best test out there since every weapon is different. Its all in what your weapon likes to eat. Now as far as my experiance with the berger bullets, it has been a good one. Accurate as can be and fantastic performance on game and paper. The wound channel with the 7mag on whitetail was a bit large but thats the nature of the beast. With my 7mm.08 it was dead on perfection on deer. Got a 220 pound hog dead in the shoulder and dropped like a stone. Opened up the hog and the bullet was in the off shoulder hide. This was a 235 yard shot so yep Im happy with that performance as well. Excellent wound tract perfect expansion with 95%+ weight retention after going through 2 shoulder bones of a 220 pound hog to me is perfect. To be honest I think no matter what bullet you choose you will have either a meat grinder or barely leaving a hole with a .300 win mag. on mulies. Like my 7 mag thats just the nature of the beast. I do think however if there is a bullet out there that can tame the .300 win mag a little bit it would be this one. I've been a solid Hornady fan for a lotta years and still use them in a number of my weapons. Used to use them in my 7mm.08 with excellent results but my buddy turned me onto the Bergers for them and was even better. As far as reload data there are a ton of books out there. Mark has 3 with all the data I need for these calibres. Im a little fearful giving load data over the web for simple reason of safety. I dont know your weapon as you do and would hate myself if I recommended a load and you got hurt. The web has hundreds of sites where you can purchase reputable reload manuals. Good luck and stay safe

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Location: British Columbia
Joined: 05/03/2009
Posts: 10
300 win- accurate hunting load

Thanks for your reply Cam,
Sounds like this is a bullet worth trying out from your feed back and other similar threads I have found.
I guess that what I was interested in as far as load data for the Berger was a preferred seating depth and powder combination. I know the Barnes like to have a little jump into the rifling at least in my rifles. I am limited to 3.74" OACL in my clip and looking at the Berger's secant design was wondering if it would be a problem. I do have and regularly refer to my Nosler, Barnes, Speer and Hornady manuals and understand and respect your preservation on giving out your own data. I could not find any manuals or reload data on the Berger site. I found one thread discussing someone seating their Berger bullets .010" into the lands which is not something I have tried or would be too quick to. I would imagine you would want to work close with the crony and be extremely carefull with pressures in mind if it is what was required. I don't know, just never heard of it before.
You mentioned good success with the Hornady bullets. Which of their designs was your hunting bullet of choice (bullet only).
Just wondering, going to be putting in an order for supplies soon and wouldn't mind coming up with some more good options for trying.
Thanks again!

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
300 win- accurate hunting load

Welp... For my 7mag She likes the 162 grain A-max molly. With my loads she puts in 1/4" at 200 as long as I do my part. With the 7mm.08 she really likes the 139 grain interbond which I use for hogs and the 139 grain sst for deer. The sst opens a little easier. Thats when I load Hornady in those 2... As far as my other weapons that I load Hornady in....270 150 interbond...30.06 I have 7 different loadups that she likes and shoots all well (freak remmington Laugh ) Then I have another 30.06 win. model 70 that will ONLY shoot 180 grain Interbonds and when I say only I mean ONLY. I've tried 27 different bullet makers and 100's of combinations with that infernal rifle. Some I could get to MOA at 100 But the interbonds I get sub MOA. Dunno how many times I dang near wrapped that POS around a tree till I landed on that combination. Shoot I wouldnt trade it for the moon now. One of the most consistant rifles I own now that I found what the heiffer likes to eat! Then I have a few Thompson Barrels that I love and enjoy different calibre's in. A couple I load Berger.. A couple I load Hornady and a couple I load Sierra's.

As far as seating depth My 7mm.08 I seat it .010 OFF the lands. The 7mag .008 OFF.... I have yet to ever feel the need to set INTO the lands before and I, like you, would have a slight worry about pressures. I would think if that fella was having to set into the lands then he may need a new barrel or a new bolt. May have shot the throat out. Im sure if Don Fisher reads this he will be quick to agree on that.

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Location: British Columbia
Joined: 05/03/2009
Posts: 10
300 win- accurate hunting load

Thanks for sharing some of your favorite loads with me. Looks like you have done a lot of fine tuning and have some pretty impressive loads to show for it. You may have just turned a passion of mine in to an obsession. I will definately be picking up some Interbonds and A-max to work with. I also have a Sako 75 in 30.06 spg which due to its shorter action and magazine will more than likely not allow the longer (tip to Ogive) design of the Berger VLDs. It is actually the rifle I usually use for deer due to it's weight and shorter barrel and of course a little more matched for the game.
On another note you may find interesting is that I had sent an E mail to Berger asking about their advertised barrel twists and load data. They were quick to respond and sent me load data for their 185gr VLD. Their posted barrel twist was the slowest twist rates recomended for each bullet. Also a bit of history on their recomended seating depths. Aperently up until they marketed the VLD as a hunting bullet they were pushing to have their bullets seated at or "jammed" (.010") into the lands of the barrel and found it was correcting alot of accuracy problems. Once marketed to hunters they realized from feed back and began their own testing and found that accuracy could be found jumping the bullet as much as .150" to accomodate for various actions and magazines. Anyway, thought it was interesting and shared it.
Thanks again!

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
300 win- accurate hunting load

.150???? sheesh that a LOTTA wiggle room. I can hear throats fading away as I write that!! Im by far no expert (thats Don Fisher) but I dont think I have EVER seated one THAT far away!! I never had any problems with the Bergers. Of course I do inspect my weapons vigiantly (dunno if I spelt that right) After every range outting or any time that I have tested loads. Most times you can get away with just case inspections to give you hints of chamber problems but there are times that a case just doesnt show you a problem until its too late. Headspace can be one of those problems. So I invested in measurement tools to be able to keep a close eye on everything. I love my weapons but I kinna like my eyes and life more! As for that Sako...Couple of friends of mine have that model 30.06 and shoot the Hornady 165 grain sst for deer. Its a shorter bullet and MORE than sufficiant for deer. Its one of the loads that I use in my Remmy 30.06 for Hogs and whitetail and yotes (I like to watch yotes head go POOF) with that load combo she is deadly at 500 yards on any medium sized game such as white-tail or mulie. Wouldnt be afraid to take a Bull elk at 300 or less with it either (that'll draw some flack) Brick Wall,)

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Location: Melvina, Wi.
Joined: 02/18/2007
Posts: 262
300 win- accurate hunting load

Been using 180Gr Core Lokt's, Nosler Partitions and for a while Fail Safes in my 300 push them along with 72gr of R19-- hunted most everything in West and AK for past 25+yrs.

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Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
300 win- accurate hunting load

I have never used a Berger bullet. From what I understand, they are really all match bullets. As such the goal is for shooting small groups. With a hunting bullet, the goal is to shoot adequate group's and good bullet preformance, at all reasonable ranges.

It's really simple to overlook bullet preformance in favor of accuracy, particularly if you have a success or two with the match bullet. I would caution you about asking a match bullet to preform on game like a hunting bullet. And keep in mind that that preformance is looked for at extreame ranges and close range alike. Difficult to make good hunting bullets but there are a slug of them out there.

I think you said you were gettting up to 3 1/2" group's at 200 yds? Well if your shooting at an average size deer, the target is about 8", 3 1/2" works well. Even at 300 yds you should be getting about 4 1/2 to 5" group's and the 8" target is still an 8" target!

Now if your concerned about what happens beyond that, shoot beyond that. I have found that some of my loads actually shoot better at greater distence's than at 100 yds. Example would be a rifle that shoots around 3/4" at 100 yds but into a shade over 3" at 500 yds. Shouldn't happen but it does.

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