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Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
270,280 or 30-06

Way Captain, There are no levels of dead. You are either dead or you are not. Almost dead is still alive, being dead in a few minutes is still alive for a few minutes.

donmillion said it very clearly.

Also, looking at ballistics charts, as I know you do, you will find that 150 gr spcl remington express bullets from a 30.06 when compared to a 150 grain spcl remington express bullet from a .270 the 30.06 will travel much faster, much flatter and retains more energy across the board. At 500 yards the 270 has a 61" bullet drop when zeroed in at 200 yards.....thats a 5 foot drop in 300 yards. Kinda see why I say those stories of 500 yard shots are usually not exactly true. Alot can happen to a bullet in 500 yards so even if you tried to zero it in at 500 yards your success with any given shot would be iffy at best. In comparison a 30.06 will drop 39" at 500 yards when zeroed at 200 yards using the afore-mentioned bullet and load. Thats still over 3 foot of bullet drop in 300 yards...too much for me to try that shot.

I have absolutely nothing against a .270. I think it's a fine calibre and cartridge. Same as a 22LR, fine calibre and cartridge. Just dont try and use them beyond their ability.

There is not much to think about....the laws of physics apply to everything on this earth and beyond and every shooter on this earth and, yes, it even applies to the .270. calibre.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
270,280 or 30-06

Well, I would have to agree about it if you can hit the right spot behind the ear. At least with the .300, if you miss the spot, the bullet's probably going to blow the animal's head off, especially if it's a fast-expanding bullet.

As for the 30-06 and 270 thing, yeah, I read a lot of ballistic charts, and I had to decide between the two of them last year, when I purchased my 700 BDL, I could have gotten one or the other. The decision to go with the 30-06 was based on ballistics. I would never attempt a 500 yard shot, even with my 300 Weatherby Magnum, my limit is 300 yards. I'm not a fan of ultra-long range shooting except in the varmint field.

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Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
270,280 or 30-06

Yeah captain, that last part about the 270 and the 30.06 was not really meant for you as I have seen on this forum many times you saying exactly the same thing.

I know what you mean about the 500 yard shot. They make cartridges for that type of shooting and it dont come in .270. I know that most folks who say they have taken large game at those distances truely believe thats how far they shot but in reality it msot likely was not, not saying that a few have not but it would be a very lucky shot.
Its when they start recomending such and such calibre and cartridge based on those inaccurate distance estimates or that one lucky shot that drives me crazy. We owe it to the soon to be hunters and the game we and they will shoot at to be correct and knowledgable in the recomendation of a marginal calibre and cartridge for a particular game animal.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 02/27/2003
Posts: 394
270,280 or 30-06

"We owe it to the soon to be hunters..."

This is the part of these kinds of discussions that drives me nuts. The people recommending this or that cartridge based on their experiences usually don't differentiate between the experienced hunter who has been shooting his particular rifle for 30 years and the newbie who has never hunted that animal and never shot that rifle.

I won't tell you that you're wrong to hunt elk with a .243 if you've been hunting elk for 20 years, know how to get close, know your rifle inside and out, and can knock a gnat off a squirrel's ass at 200 yards with that rifle. I most certainly WILL tell you that you are wrong to recommend a .243 to someone who is buying a brand new rifle to go elk hunting for the very first time. There is a HUGE difference between the two situations, which never seems to be addressed in these kinds of debates!

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
270,280 or 30-06

What drives me crazy is when some hunters get rifles chambered for fast, flat-shooting calibers, i.e a 7mm magnum or 300 magnum, and think this automatically makes them capable of taking 400-yard shots. Plus, in the field, most of the time, these guys don't know the difference between a 200 yard shot and a 400 yard shot, so they make the 200 yard shot thinking its 400, and kill the deer or elk, and then brag, and possibly even write an article about it, and along comes the ludicrous idea that such calibers (and attitudes), are ideal for hunting.

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Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
270,280 or 30-06

I can not agree with you more donmillion.
What really makes me nuts is that folks will also recommend a lite calibre and cartridge to a newbie simply because of recoil. Add this to tales of 400 and 500 yard shots and you have a recipe for disaster; Missed shots and wounded animals when the newbie hunter gets tired of seeing nothing but rumps running away and decides to take one of those 400 yard shots that they were told were an everyday guarranteed shot with such and such calibre at the first sight of Game.

Fact is there aint a whole lot of difference in recoil of a .270 and a 30.06. If thats a problem for you then mabe you outta think twice about taking up such a physically demanding sport. If are physically able to get to where Elk and Moose live then recoil should be at the very bottom of the list of things to worry about when you consider a firearm purchase.

BIG differance between an experienced shooter/hunter and a greener who barely knows what a track looks like but had a couple hundred dollars laying around so they decided to buy a rifle and go a huntin.

Perfectly said Captain!!

[ This Message was edited by: JTapia on 2004-03-19 16:20 ]

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Location: Wisconsin
Joined: 12/08/2003
Posts: 134
270,280 or 30-06

I think the "soon to be hunters" need some guidance, but it should be done by a relative or close friend, someone who is going to make sure that they're first experiences are good ones, and that safety is stressed. Advice meaning information, not having all decisions made for them.
If the information is coming from an untrusted source, it should be accepted, but with a grain of salt. It may be good or bad, but if it jibes with info you've gotten from parents or good friends, then it's just another notch in the "plus" column.
Newer hunters should have someone to help them make informed decisions (not telling them what to use). It is just better for them and for the sport.

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
270,280 or 30-06

I've never shot a 280rem, but from what I've read an heard about it is you need to be a reloader to get it's full potential. As far as the 270win and the 30-06, both of which I have used. The only differences I've noticed are the 270win can throw a lighter HUNTING bullet and the 30-06 can throw heavy bullets that the 270win is not capable of. (That is with a standard twist of 1" in 10"). The 270 is capable of accomplishing anything the 30-06 can with proper loads.

We were all novice hunters at one time or another. I know for myself I was given some good advice. There have been a few times when I felt I could have made the shot and I had a caliber that was capable but I would follow the animal in my cross hairs until they disappeared over the ridge. In the states that I have hunted in I believe if you were born after 1972 your required to take a hunter safety course. I'm not sure of what they teach in these classes, but I hope it would include showing some respect for the game.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
270,280 or 30-06

They do, unfortunately, it doesn't sink in well enough to eliminate the macho. I've spent plenty of time in gunstores, at Walmart, Bass Pro Shops and similar places that sell firearms, and I have come across this time and time again. I see these young guys buying rifles, and 9 times out of every ten, its a 7mm magnum, or a 300 magnum, with the 300 being twice as common. I've actually asked some of these individuals what made them choose this particular caliber, and the yearbook answer goes something like this: ''when I make the shot, I want to KNOW I can put the animal down way out there.'' Most of the time, these were deer hunters. They weren't heading west for elk or moose or other CXP3 game, they were buying these guns for deer. When I get out to the range, about twice a week on the average, there are always guys like that shooting, and its not unusual to hear a lot of talk about 400 and 500 yard shots at deer. But when these people bring their targets up, often times, the groups are 3 or 4 inches at 100 yards, and all over the place at 200 yards. Seeing inexperienced shooters trying to set their scopes for 300 yard zero is not unusual either, despite the fact that they have little concept of what 300 yards actually looks like. It's as though these people think just because they have a powerful, flat shooting magnum, that it means they are automatically able to make ultra-long shots. Frankly, a 4 inch group at 200 yards from a benchrest sucks, in my opinion. It's nice to look at for some people. That same 4 inch group fired from the sitting stance is quite good. Its not difficult to shoot well from a benchrest. It takes lots of practice to learn to shoot well from natural hunting positions. I do almost all my shooting from hunting positions except sighting in a new scope. Finally, since almost all big game in this country is taken at 200 yards or less, a caliber that drops 6-7 inches at 300 yards and delivers at least 1100 ft-lbs at that distance is plenty of gun for most North American game. A 270, 280, or 30-06 are enough gun for all North American game, with the 30-06, shooting its 180 grain bullets at 2700 fps, being plenty for moose and big bears.

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Location: Wisconsin
Joined: 12/08/2003
Posts: 134
270,280 or 30-06

Having worked for Bass Pro, I can attest to what Captain says. There were people who wanted the most powerful, fastest, widget, whiz-bang, ultimate critter killer, no matter the cost, usefulness, or recoil. Most animals aren't really that difficult to kill. There are any number of rounds that work if you hit the critter in the right spot.
The .280 does have some good factory rounds out there. Remington, Federal, and Winchester all offer good .280 loads, but you may not find them everywhere like the .270 or .30-06.