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Location: Sneads, Florida
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 122
223 for hunting Whitetails

Any ideas on how to make the bolt action smoother. It is very rough and feels like it is about to break everytime you chamber a bullet. I am pretty disappointed with Remington on this.

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
223 for hunting Whitetails

Sorry it took a while Ganny, was out huntin. Lets see, what do you mean "it feels like its about to break" ? As in very hard to close the bolt? I havnt had one in my hand's yet so I dont know how they feel. Some new weapons tend to close a little rough untill they get a little broken in but its usually not that prevolent. Not having it in my hands it would be difficult to assess the problem. I would recommend you id take it to a smith to have it checked out just to be sure. Its in the hands of your daughter so if you feel something just isnt right, it would be better to be safe than sorry. If its difficult to close, that could be many things, ammo built a little long, lugs built to far foward, lugs undercut just a tiney bit, many other things. Could even be the chamber wasnt rheemed out enough. Lots of things on a rifle need to be withing 1000th of an inch in tolerances or it wont feel right. Thats the problem with cheap runnoff lines sometimes. Was the main problem with the 710. They just built it TOO cheap and much was lost in quality. I have a feeling I will get a few coming to me soon wondering whats wrong.

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Location: Sneads, Florida
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 122
223 for hunting Whitetails

I will be taking it to a smith then. It is rough sliding and hard to close the last 1/4 of inch. My daughter just about cant do it. I will let you know what they say.

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Location: USA
Joined: 06/04/2006
Posts: 166
223 for hunting Whitetails
CSAhunter wrote:
IMO, and having seen hundreds of animals shot with a 223 and a 243, a 223 does more damge and has more "shock" than a 243.

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Location: USA
Joined: 06/04/2006
Posts: 166
223 for hunting Whitetails
cam69conv wrote:
Nope I aint 12 and 70 pounds. But my daughter was 12 and around 70 pounds just 8 years ago. And at 12 she was shooting my .270!!! The recoil of a 7mm.08 is nowhere NEAR 40 to 50% more than a .243 I know because I HAVE one. I dont have to compare it on paper. As I said TWICE now, recoil suppression technology reduces FELT recoil. I'm not a young wippersnapper myself and Id just about bet my knowledge of firearms is well within your range as I was trained by some of the best in the world (marine scout/snipers) and do know just a smidge about this subject. Felt recoil verses true recoil is 2 completely different worlds. Its like comparing a single shot to an Auto loader. Which ones gonna kick the hardest? You have suppression in different ways, I.E. An auto loader will take a good bit of the recoil. Then you have Gun Weight, then Recoil absorbtion in kick pads. Many ways to lessen the Felt blow of recoil. At the chamber is where they come up with all this data that people read and think because it says it in a reputable magazine then it must be gospel. But that aint the facts here. Yes if you put up 2 identical rifles, one chambered in .243 and the other in 7mm.08 then yes there is a small difference. Now you take that 7mm.08 and put a kick pad on it then put it on a kick scale and see what you get in the difference. Its FELT recoil that is the killer and it is easily reduced. A .243 is a wonderful calibre for deer but say in a year or 2 PoPs wants to take her on an Elk hunt. You think he is going to want to have her out for a Bull Elk with a .243? It would kill it with the right bullet but it would sure be undergunned. Now say he got her the 7mm.08...Load that puppy up with some 145's and go wailing!!!

Ironwood you completely missed my point as far as using REDUCING technology so that the 7mm.08 would be a viable and more productive chambering. While yes I do love the .243 for kids, as All mine started with, the 7mm.08 is a more viable and powerful round. With todays recoil suppression there is just no need to limit her to the smaller .243 when there is a better choice! Its that simple. And as far as you thinking I havnt shot something big sir. Try on the M107 Barret .50cal then come talk to me about KICK!! Or even better, Come take my Mossburg 500 pumper with a deer slayer barrel on it and 3 inch lightfields and sight it in for me. I'll bet your shoulder will WISHING it had the same stock my .300 win mag has on it.

Quote:
By Cam69conv

LoL I wasnt riled till someone tried to say I had no clue as to what I was speaking about, when it was OBVIOUS I did and do!! Got some codgers on here that are stuck in the dang past. I aint no spring chicken but I love to learn new things and try to stay current with technology of todays firearms. Maybe if some of our "older" members would try that, things wouldnt get so heated!
I tried the heavy rifle approach with my Middle son and it really didnt work out so well for him. But that was in the mountains like you said so I ended up carrying it for him

Damn Cam, you into it again????? Seems like everyplace I see your posts someone is correcting you, or you are trying to talk your way out of a corner! Big smile Big smile Big smile Big smile

Not shorting your Marine Corp snipers on their ability to shoot at long range, but the military is certainly not the place to go to learn anything about hunting, or hunting guns. Hell the're still teaching their men that the reason the 223 kills is because the bullet tumbles on impact! What a crock! The worse hunters in the world tend to be long range target shooters, and military snipers. And the only people as a group, that know less than the military soldier,about firearms, is a city policeman. There are exceptions in any group, but most are clueless!

The 7mm-08 is a good cartridge, but if I were going to jump a step up from the 243 win, to a 7mm cartridge, I would jump over the 7mm-08, (308 necked down to 7mm) and go to the 280 Rem (7mm-06) , instead. The recoil is about the same, but the 280 is a better ballanced cartridge!

The 70 lb girl can handel the 243 rifle fine, as well as the 7mm-08, and the 280 Rem ! She just needs a little stump shooting from on her hind feet,(stay off the shooti ng bench) untill she gets used to the recoil. The thing to do is get her a rifle that fits her, and install a very good recoil pad, Mount a good scope on it with a bold reticle, and if you hand load, load some rounds with minimum powder charges and hit the woods letting her shoot at stumps, and knots, or get her to some place where there are some jackrabits in open country so she can get in some running shots. Slowly increase the powder charges till she can handle the full charges.

Well I guess the next paragraph makes me one of the old codgers, at age 71, but I certainly am not stuck in the past, Like old Elmersaid , "HELL, was there", but I've also have been here for every new, and imporved developement that has come across the horrizon till today, and simple physics hasn't changed since the time man first made a stone ax.

I'm sure, as well, this applies to to IRONWOOD as well! I have no idea what gives you the idea that you know everything, and seemingly , in your opinion,nobody else knows anything. I guess it all boils down to one own opinion of himself! That type opinion, is not usually shared by many others, however! I really don't see the need for all this anger. After all, this is supposed to be a place for the Exchange of ideas, and information, not for one person to dictate what is posted, but I must be mistaken on that point as well!

I have four kids (they were kids long ago) one girl, and three boys. Today the girl is 51 yrs old, and the boys are 50yrs,47 yrs, and 44 yrs old, and all started shooting centerfire deer calibers, and 20 ga shotguns, at the age of 9 yrs, haveing already shot single shot 22 LRs since the age of six yrs. My girl still only weighs 95 lbs at 51 yrs old, but she shoots my 375 H&H Whitworth Safari express, like it was an extention of her body. My boys were all shooting my 500/450 double rifle by age 15 yrs. It is simply a process of work-up! Thumbs up

Joined: 12/07/2007
Posts: 25
223 for hunting Whitetails

I read most all of the posts here it is an interesting topic an one ner and dear to me. My friend and I both have sons the same age. Only 4 days apart (we must have go home froma hunting trip the same time 7 years ago). We both live in the wood and on th water and have had the spuds there since they could walk.

When they were 6 , they wanted to do more than watch us hunt. So we started huning SC and NH (states that allowed youth hunting). However the kids are both small framed. We had this .223 debate with several people and finnally gave it a try. That being said we spent a ton of time at the range. I totally agree with all the guys that said the shot has to be good. I don't think a .223 allows for a bad shot, but it has worked well for the kids. We are moving them up to .243 this christmas but the .223 has served us well and I would recommend it for new hunters.



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Location: USA
Joined: 06/04/2006
Posts: 166
223 for hunting Whitetails
Northeast Hunter wrote:
I read most all of the posts here it is an interesting topic an one ner and dear to me. My friend and I both have sons the same age. Only 4 days apart (we must have go home froma hunting trip the same time 7 years ago). We both live in the wood and on th water and have had the spuds there since they could walk.

When they were 6 , they wanted to do more than watch us hunt. So we started huning SC and NH (states that allowed youth hunting). However the kids are both small framed. We had this .223 debate with several people and finnally gave it a try. That being said we spent a ton of time at the range. I totally agree with all the guys that said the shot has to be good. I don't think a .223 allows for a bad shot, but it has worked well for the kids. We are moving them up to .243 this christmas but the .223 has served us well and I would recommend it for new hunters.

I agree with the post quoted above, in that as long as there is sufficient training, and supervision, then the 223 will kill deer quite nicely. As I said in my post above the 223 where legal, is a cartridge I would recommend for an expert, and I don't consider it a round for a novice. The key here is the fathers went to considerable trouble to teach their boys to shoot, and schooled them as to not only hit the deer, but "WHERE" to hit the deer. For a very young shooter, they must be taught that it is imperative that they pass questionable shots, and shoot only when the proper target is presented. It seems this is the case here with these two young hunters. These boys will become great hunters, who show real responsibility in the field.

Moving to a 243 will be even better, and as long as they stay away from the light varmint bullets, and use only good quality 100 gr bullets, they can shoot deer up to very large Muledeer, from just about any angle, and within 200-300 yds, with good effect, with a good scope on their rifles, and practice.

.............................. Congratulations gentlemen! Thumbs up

Joined: 12/07/2007
Posts: 25
223 for hunting Whitetails

Thanks. I am hoping they will adjust to the .243 smoothly. He shot a 260 on a hog hunt last Aug. He handled it nicely but he know it had more boom boom. My focus right now is on technique. I will cross the river by feeling the stones.

Here is some film from the hog hunt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NaJOg_dwoQ

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Location: USA
Joined: 06/04/2006
Posts: 166
223 for hunting Whitetails

That was some good footage! I don't see any problem with your boy handleing a 243 rifle! He's well trained, and handles himself, and the rifle safely as far as I can see. You need to take him out west to shoot some muledeer, in New Mexico. There is 36,000,000 acres of public land there to hunt, and pleanty of game including muledeer Black bear,Elk, and Pronghorn. All can be legally hunted with a 243, with the posible exception of the elk. He will do fine in the cross canyon shooting there!

Good show guy, I think you've got a real hunter on your hands there! Thumbs up

Joined: 10/30/2007
Posts: 58
223 for hunting Whitetails

I love the 243 to hunt deer. But correct me if I am wrong don’t the military use .223 and I would say it is harder to e in combat than deer. I know of several people that hunt with a 223. And they do fine. But remember shock kills and a 223 will shock the animals that you hit.
Troy
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