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Location: NE NV
Joined: 03/18/2010
Posts: 383
Re: 223 for deer

Sorry Guys!! Didn't know there were nerves so close to the surface on this issue. Kinda feel like Zumbo. Of course a 223 will cleanly kill a deer. A .410 will cleanly kill a goose too. Might even be legal too. Doesn't make it a good idea. Why use a caliber thats recognized by State wildlife agencies as minimally acceptable (in those state where legal) when there are so many other better choices?

In perfect world where a competent, experienced and relaxed hunter, shooting from a solid rest at unalert broadside deer at close range using a stoutly constructed bullet from an accurate rifle sighted in for that bullet and hitting a relatively soft tissue and vital organs (phew!), a 223 will most likely work almost every time.

In the real world the novice hunter will be shooting off a so-so rest (if any) at a kinda broadside nervous deer shooting inexpensive FMJ's or economy varmint bullets (Dang, those Barnes & Partitions are expensive), hit the shoulder and if he or she is real lucky will get a chance for a follow up kill shot and recover the deer in time to save the meat.

Watching a deer stumble around in the sagebrush with a festering baseball sized crater in it's shoulder aint fun and it aint pretty. I've got too much respect for the animal and for the sport to risk it.

I'm thinking Elmer Keith was on to something..."Use Enough Gun". Guessing Zumbo would agree too.

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Location: NE NV
Joined: 03/18/2010
Posts: 383
Re: 223 for deer

Apologies for the incorrect reference. While spending yesterday with my youngest daughter at the DOW building for her hunter certification course & testing (she passed, immediatedly dragged me to the hardware store to get het first hunting license & within a couple of hours was on line applying for her first Jr. deer tag & an antelope tag. She says we have to go target shooting this afternoon.) I realized that my referenced to Keith was inaccurate. Should have said Robert Ruarke. Course now I'll problably be labeled a Ludite, thinking that only fat, heavy bullets are adequate. Oh Well.

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Location: Virginia
Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 12
Re: 223 for deer

HAHA! you're forgiven! actually I didnt even pick up on it! Fast and light, slow and heavy, whatever! if we put them where they're supposed to go, and the bullet holds up and does its part, its meat on the table! Congratulations on your daughter's certification and first hunting license! That is a wonderful testimony for a DAD...im real glad for you.

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Joined: 08/10/2007
Posts: 25
Re: 223 for deer
mmangels22 wrote:
I never said any 22 round is unethical I said it is for big game. They (DFG) catch you hunting with a 22 during deer, elk or pig seasons you get a nice fat ticket.
You need to be a damn good substinence hunter to use 22 on a deer, however 24 caliber should be the min.

You can legally use a .223 to hunt deer, pigs or elk in California, even a .17 fireball or .204 ruger would be legal. "Game may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles" " Pistols and revolvers using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles may be used to take deer, bear, and wild pigs.
" Pistols and revolvers with minimum barrel lengths of 4 inches, using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles may be used to take elk and bighorn sheep."

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Joined: 05/05/2006
Posts: 2363
Re: 223 for deer
Hal Fast wrote:
Sorry Guys!! Didn't know there were nerves so close to the surface on this issue. Kinda feel like Zumbo. Of course a 223 will cleanly kill a deer. A .410 will cleanly kill a goose too. Might even be legal too. Doesn't make it a good idea. Why use a caliber thats recognized by State wildlife agencies as minimally acceptable (in those state where legal) when there are so many other better choices?

In perfect world where a competent, experienced and relaxed hunter, shooting from a solid rest at unalert broadside deer at close range using a stoutly constructed bullet from an accurate rifle sighted in for that bullet and hitting a relatively soft tissue and vital organs (phew!), a 223 will most likely work almost every time.

In the real world the novice hunter will be shooting off a so-so rest (if any) at a kinda broadside nervous deer shooting inexpensive FMJ's or economy varmint bullets (Dang, those Barnes & Partitions are expensive), hit the shoulder and if he or she is real lucky will get a chance for a follow up kill shot and recover the deer in time to save the meat.

Watching a deer stumble around in the sagebrush with a festering baseball sized crater in it's shoulder aint fun and it aint pretty. I've got too much respect for the animal and for the sport to risk it.

I'm thinking Elmer Keith was on to something..."Use Enough Gun". Guessing Zumbo would agree too.

Not quite. What Zumbo said about AR type rifles was completely different and erroneous compared to this subject. Zumbo's comment was not about .223 for deer. Luckily Ted Nugent invited Zumbo out to his place to shoot ARs and in a way explained to him the error of his comments about the AR type guns. Zumbo sees it much differently now and I'm glad. I really didn't want to treat Zumbo like the enemy because his contributions to the sport of hunting have been enormous. I'm just glad he understands now that an attack on one gun is an attack on all guns and gun owners.

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Location: Fort Collins, CO
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zumbo

WesternHunter wrote:

Hal Fast wrote:
Sorry Guys!! Didn't know there were nerves so close to the surface on this issue. Kinda feel like Zumbo. Of course a 223 will cleanly kill a deer. A .410 will cleanly kill a goose too. Might even be legal too. Doesn't make it a good idea. Why use a caliber thats recognized by State wildlife agencies as minimally acceptable (in those state where legal) when there are so many other better choices? In perfect world where a competent, experienced and relaxed hunter, shooting from a solid rest at unalert broadside deer at close range using a stoutly constructed bullet from an accurate rifle sighted in for that bullet and hitting a relatively soft tissue and vital organs (phew!), a 223 will most likely work almost every time. In the real world the novice hunter will be shooting off a so-so rest (if any) at a kinda broadside nervous deer shooting inexpensive FMJ's or economy varmint bullets (Dang, those Barnes & Partitions are expensive), hit the shoulder and if he or she is real lucky will get a chance for a follow up kill shot and recover the deer in time to save the meat. Watching a deer stumble around in the sagebrush with a festering baseball sized crater in it's shoulder aint fun and it aint pretty. I've got too much respect for the animal and for the sport to risk it. I'm thinking Elmer Keith was on to something..."Use Enough Gun". Guessing Zumbo would agree too.

Not quite. What Zumbo said about AR type rifles was completely different and erroneous compared to this subject. Zumbo's comment was not about .223 for deer. Luckily Ted Nugent invited Zumbo out to his place to shoot ARs and in a way explained to him the error of his comments about the AR type guns. Zumbo sees it much differently now and I'm glad. I really didn't want to treat Zumbo like the enemy because his contributions to the sport of hunting have been enormous. I'm just glad he understands now that an attack on one gun is an attack on all guns and gun owners.

What exactly did Zumbo say that got him canned? It must have been pretty bad cause he was a good writer. I really enjoyed his articles and have a couple books by him.

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Joined: 05/12/2010
Posts: 3
Re: 223 for deer

Chris McCandels managed to kill a full grown moose in canada with a 22 cal remington. Here where i live i have been told that if I take my 270 elk hunting it wont work? WTF mate!

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Posts: 2363
Re: 223 for deer
fattycakes wrote:
Chris McCandels managed to kill a full grown moose in canada with a 22 cal remington. Here where i live i have been told that if I take my 270 elk hunting it wont work? WTF mate!

I've been told the same thing about the .270 I use for elk. But mine drops them just a well as a 300 win mag and has for years. Funny thing about it is that there is a growing new erroneous school of thought that tried to make new hunters think that the .30-06 isn't good enough for elk. Hog wash!

I sure wouldn't be attempting to take a bull moose with a .22 Just because it has been done before doesn't mean it should be done.

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Location: Nova Scotia
Joined: 08/17/2002
Posts: 1762
Re: 223 for deer

There are native hunters here that use only the .22mag for moose. They say the moose doesn't even try to move while they are putting a couple of rounds in its head. Then as if stuck by lightning the moose topples over stone dead not ever knowing what hit it. I say BS bs but then I'll never find out either.

I don't think I will ever be inclined to try that. There are better cartridges for the job out there. Take your pick.

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Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 2
223 for deer

first I don't hunt anymore. I kill. as a farmer I protect my crops (and my income) by shooting critters that try to eat it before I can pick it. The farm is close enough to town to have the I like to watch deer crowd who set up feeders. Way more game than is good. there are guns at every window of the farm house set by range and target. windows slide sideways and both ways. the window that looks over the 400 yard field has a 30-06 with a springfield 4-12. the 250 yard field has a 243 with a 3-9 nikon. 150 yard window 308 with a red dot. 80 yard window 223 a bolt with a t6 weaver. Deer, turkeys, rabbits, groundhogs, coy dogs, taken from every window. Rule #1 no shot moving animal. Rule #2 head shot only. Rule #3 no off hand or unsupported shot. rule #4 if you can't play by the rules don' t come back. all guns are shot monthy and cleaned. 22 years and not a second shot needed, 5 people son daughter, nephews. the 223 stands well maybe from the range or maybe because it is an abolt with a boss and no one is going to flinch. it has 11 turkeys along with the deer try a head shot on them. alot of not taken shots on every window.

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